More Forrest woes!!

[Gene Collison]

I posted the other day in John Miliunas's thread about the fact that I had seen evidence of poor quality brazing on a particular Forrest blade that I own. I checked a brand new unused Forrest WW2 in my blade inventory, attached is a close up picture of what I have found. I removed the sealing wax on only 2 of the teeth for photo purposes, I wanted to keep it new so I can sell it. I don't even want to mount it on my saw because there are many more teeth in the same condition! The picture as I see it shows a square notch cut in the blade body with the tooth not even setting in the notch or contoured to it but away from it and filled with a brazing alloy that is clearly filled with porosity. Silver solder is a close fit only brazing allow, it should never be used to bridge gaps. I can go into the details if someone want to know how it should be but I think it's pretty self explanatory. In short, it's a lousy low quality job, an accident ready to happen IMHO. I have also attached pictures of a Dewalt Series 60, Freud 80 tooth, CMT General for workmanship comparison. The CMT General looks like it is good for 1 sharpening only, really skimpy on the carbide but a great performing blade otherwise. The Dewalt, Freud, and CMT show suberb workmanship in comparison, the silver braze feathers out in each with no porosity showing. The tooth fits the countour cut for it like it should. I also have a Ridge carbide blade that I didn't shoot because it's on my saw. It is basically about the same build quality as the Dewalt 60 but costs twice as much.

[thomas prevost]

SCARY!!! Again, Forrest should be aware that these are being posted an many woodworking forums. I examined my blade with a loop. many brazing pits but not anything like this photo. I think mine may make a clock as I value my safety.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Gene, That's very interesting; I guess no manufacturer is perfect but maybe the bigger ones have more automated equipment to avoid the problem seen in your pictures. I don't really know. But do you really want to sell that blade to somebody knowing they may be injured with it? I'm not a lawyer but you may have some liability selling something with a know safety defect. Alan in Md.

[Gene Collison]

Gene, That's very interesting; I guess no manufacturer is perfect but maybe the bigger ones have more automated equipment to avoid the problem seen in your pictures. I don't really know. But do you really want to sell that blade to somebody knowing they may be injured with it? I'm not a lawyer but you may have some liability selling something with a know safety defect. Alan in Md.

Alan, I may have to eat this blade, I can't sell it based on what I know about it. I wouldn't want to see someone else get that tooth imbedded in their eye or worse. And I don't really feel like going through the hassle that John M. just went through. Also, since I have another Forrest that is not as bad but not good by any means, I really don't think I even want another one.

Gene

[Martin Shupe]

It is a shame to see Forrest products of such poor quality. It makes me think twice about buying a blade of theirs ever again.

I have 3 Forrest blades, all several years old, but I don't think any look like yours, at least I hope not. I will check as soon as I get home.

I always thought that Forrest blades were worth the extra money, now I am not sure at all.

Have you tried to return the blade for a full refund? If they won't give you a full refund, perhaps a class action lawsuit is in order.

I am sure I will get some jeers for that statement, but how else do you get a company's attention these days?

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

I'm no expert, but I do know that I will be pulling my WWII off my saw in the morning, cleaning it up good, and giving it a REAL good looking over. I haven't had any problems with them so far, but I do cut some hard exotic woods and the last thing I want is some Carbide in my forehead!
Thanks for posting the pictures Gene..............it wouldn't hurt for all of us to give our blade inventory a good, once over. Sheesh, gives me the willies just thinking about the potential danger.

[Jamie Buxton]

Alan, I may have to eat this blade, I can't sell it based on what I know about it. I wouldn't want to see someone else get that tooth imbedded in their eye or worse. And I don't really feel like going through the hassle that John M. just went through. Also, since I have another Forrest that is not as bad but not good by any means, I really don't think I even want another one.

Gene

Gene ---

So you're saying this blade is trash for you. You don't want to run it yourself, and you don't want to sell it. (BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with you.) The easy thing to do is to throw it away and get on with your life, and I might do that myself. However, you might consider doing something for the woodworking community, which is to try to help Forrest get better.

Here's what you do... You send the blade back to Forrest, pointing out what you believe is a manufacturing problem. Don't bother getting involved with whether they send you a replacement. (After all, you've already decided to eat the cost of this blade -- this is just a different way for you to throw away the blade.) Just tell them about their screw-up. Me, I've never dealt with Forrest, but my Polly-anna view of the world is that they're probably responsible folks who want to do well. If that's right, bad blades returning from customers should scare them into re-examining their manufacturing process. If that happens, there will be fewer of our fellow woodworkers who lose an eye, thanks to your efforts.

Of course, I have to admit that maybe I'm naive, and your efforts won't change a darn thing. But why not give it a shot? It'll only cost you a few minutes to pack the blade, and $5 for postage.

Jamie

[thomas prevost]

Gene,

I cannot believe they are unaware of the problems. Post have been on the OAK forum as well as many others including this forum in the past year. This means many are complaining to them and returning blades. Their initial response has been to bluff the customer, then if returned make him pay for the shipping and repair. When PR is needed give a few blades away to the heavyweights as they did on the OAK forum (not the people who had the bad blades). Action will probably only take place when there is a liability suit and their insurance company forces a recall. It is too bad as the design is great.

[Gene Collison]

Gene what you believe is a manufacturing problem. Don't bother getting involved with whether they send you a replacement. (After all, you've already decided to eat the cost of this blade -- this is just a different way for you to throw away the blade.) Just tell them about their screw-up. Me, I've never dealt with Forrest, but my Polly-anna view of the world is that they're probably responsible folks who want to do well. If that's right, bad blades returning from customers should scare them into re-examining their manufacturing process. If that happens, there will be fewer of our fellow woodworkers who lose an eye, thanks to your efforts.

Of course, I have to admit that maybe I'm naive, and your efforts won't change a darn thing. But why not give it a shot? It'll only cost you a few minutes to pack the blade, and $5 for postage.

Jamie

I may use your suggestion, I'm waiting for this thread to run its course and see what others have to say. I really don't want another Forrest, their build techniques to me are way behind their competitors. Their braze joining techniques would fail x-ray every time. They need technical help and a good QC guy.

Gene

[Gene Collison]

Have you tried to return the blade for a full refund? If they won't give you a full refund, perhaps a class action lawsuit is in order.

I am sure I will get some jeers for that statement, but how else do you get a company's attention these days?

Martin,

I haven't tried anything yet, not sure what I am going to do if anything. A refund would be a good thing for me, I don't want another one of their blades yet!

Gene

[Jerry Olexa]

Gene, thanks for the detailed analysis and pics. Makes me think even more about my current dissapointment w that blade!!

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan, I may have to eat this blade, I can't sell it based on what I know about it. I wouldn't want to see someone else get that tooth imbedded in their eye or worse. And I don't really feel like going through the hassle that John M. just went through. Also, since I have another Forrest that is not as bad but not good by any means, I really don't think I even want another one.

Gene

I would think any company that wants to stay in business would correct an obvious manufacturing defect and do it for free. All they have to do is look at smart companies like Lee Valley, Rockler, Tauton Press (remember the copied DVD fiasco?) etc. Now those people know how to treat their customers with no tricks involved. Just straight up good customer service. But then again maybe Forrest has all the business it wants and doesn't care. Some of the posts here make me think this may be the case or just plain arrogance. Alan in Md.

[Greg Mann]

Gene,

I agree with Jamie about sending it to Forrest. It does not make sense for a company to put all the effort they have into the equipment to produce the blades and sharpen them to the quality they do and risk it all on shoddy brazing. I question how much they do know about the extent of the problem they have. Manufacturing processes can get out of control, bad product can be made, and a manufacturer can think they have it all quarantined when they do not. There may be manufacturing codes on your blade that can help them understand the extent of their problem and determine if they need to issue a recall and what the scope of it should be. If you are concerned about safety, and I agree that you should be, then help them by returning the blade.

Greg

[Greg Mann]

Gene,

Since John has not been able to report back on the disposition of his blade yet it may be premature to describe it as "all the hassle" he has gone through. It is important to see if they are going to do right by him. Having said that, your pics clearly show that they have a real problem with at least some significant number of blades, so replacement of a blade or two is probably not the real issue. I just know that we get reports of less than satisfactory parts that we make now and then where I work and it is important to see what the customer sees. Sometimes the damage is after other people have handled them (not the type of damage you have documented) or some other assignable cause beyond our control. Let's put the ball in Forrest's court and see what they do.

Greg

[Dennis Peacock]

Three words:

Everlast
or
Amana

End of story!!!!!