45* cuts on TS (mitered corners for jewelry boxes)

[Todd Young]

There's probably a very simple answer to this question but I'll ask it anyways. I've been having a problem lately when I go to put the 45* mitered edge on a box side (usually 1/2-3/4" thickness board). I'm using a 45* shop made X-cut sled to make the cut.

Sometimes when I finish the cut, the "cut (waste)" piece gets pulled into the blade as I retract the sled and it ends up getting thrown from the TS. Sometimes my 45* mitered box side gets pulled back against the blade (once the blade grabs and throws the waste piece), gouging it where I just cut it. Doesn't happen every time or very frequently, but has every now and again here recently.

I'm not cutting large pieces off many times. Many end up being small triangled shaped cut pieces that are rather light and I think because they're light, the force from the spinning blade draws it back in when I retract the sled then the blade grabs it and throws it. Freaked me out when it's happened.

Am I'm not doing the right thing by leaving the pieces on the sled when I retract it?

Should I be pushing the sled to the far end of the TS until it clears the blade, then removing the pieces (both "cut waste" and box side) or is there a better method to use when I retract the sled?

I don't have an extension table on the end of my TS to support the sled at this point. I haven't tried pushing the sled past the spinning blade method. The idea of me reaching across the TS to grab the sled gets me closer than I want to get to the spinning blade.

Any advice is welcome if you've experienced the same issue.

[Joe Scharle]

I always draw my workpiece away after it clears the blade. With small pieces of waste, I keep an unsharpened pencil in my right hand to flick the cutoff off the sled. Be safe...know where the blade is. Some woodworkers will build a saw cover on the operator side of the sled fence to hide the blade while they clear the sled deck. The air turbulence can pick up small pieces and launch them anywhere as you know.

[Mike Henderson]

I use a miter saw for those kinds of cuts.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

Can you give a few more details? Is the blade set to 45 degrees, or is the fence on the sled set to 45 degrees? Without knowing the dimensions of your box material there is no logical assumption as to which is the case. And if the blade is beveled to make the cut, is your keeper on the high side or the low side of the blade? I know my approach will vary depending on which type of cut you are making, others may feel similarly.

[Andy Sowers]

Is there any slop between the sled runners and the miter slots? If there is, there could be enough of a difference in the angle of the sled with respect to the blade as you are pushing the piece through the cut vs pulling it back in front of the blade... that difference could cause one of the pieces to contact the blade which could result in what you've described...

Check to see how much play there is in the runners by intentionally trying to rotate the sled on the top of the saw (with the blade fully retracted)...

Andy

[Phil Thien]

I use a single-runner sled for that purpose (a cutoff sled). Because there is no sled underneath the waste side, the waste drops about 1/2" (thickness of sled) to the saw table.

[Jason Hallowell]

I use a single-runner sled for that purpose (a cutoff sled). Because there is no sled underneath the waste side, the waste drops about 1/2" (thickness of sled) to the saw table.

I do the same. I also put continious sideways pressure on the sled to eliminate any potential problems caused by the minor amount of slop in the miter track.

[Todd Young]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Joe, I had been thinking of adding a blade guard to the back of the sled and will try using the pencil method to start.

Peter, the blade is at 45*, not the sled. The sled just has the 45* slot cut into it, but it runs flat on the TS w/ 2 runners. The material has been 1/2" stock at between 5-8" wide (cutting the 45* miter on); 7-10" in length. The keeper material is always on the high side of the blade, waste on the lower side of the blade.

I just ordered Doug Stowe's Basic Box Making book and it arrived yesterday afternoon. One of the methods he uses in there is cutting one side of the miter on the low side (waste on high side) then cutting the opposite miter the opposite way (waste on the low side, keeper on the high side). I've only been cutting with the keeper material on the high side.

Andy, there doesn't appear to be play in the runners, but I'll give it a check today. That was one thing I was thinking could be the source if the problem. If there was even the slightest amount of play, I could be generating the situation when I retract.

Jason / Phil, I hadn't thought of only using the 1 runner sled as an option. That could be a very simple fix and I could use the cut off side of the sled for another jig.

Thanks again guys.

[glenn bradley]

This little guy solved all my small piece mitering issues. Very reliable and it is so nice to get a perfect fit every time.

[Todd Young]

Nice looking sled Glenn !!!! Mine is a bit bigger (longer & wider) and doesn't have the blade guard or the T-tracks. May need to build a new on for the smaller box material and include the blade guard.

Took me a minute or two to notice the sled as I was checking out your box in the foreground before I saw the sled....... Slick looking box......

T

[glenn bradley]

Thanks Todd. I have a few sleds; large, regular, dado etc. Adding the bevel sled really cured my small miter headaches. I suppose acquiring skill could have solved it too but . . . I used to have just one set of tracks but found the second set allowed for various angle cuts without relying on the fence (you do need a separate backer though to avoid blowout).

Your thread got me thinking so I went out and started on a birdseye and a lacewood box. Each will have a floating panel top of the opposite's wood. Once you're set up, its just that quick. (BTW, if they look odd, the pieces are just standing there)

[Stephen Edwards]

This little guy solved all my small piece mitering issues. Very reliable and it is so nice to get a perfect fit every time.

Glenn,

Are the holes in the top of your sled's fence for adjustments? In other words, is that a way to make sure that the fence is perfectly 90 degrees to the blade? I really like your little sled!

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, the blade is at 45*, not the sled. The keeper material is always on the high side of the blade, waste on the lower side of the blade.

I just ordered Doug Stowe's Basic Box Making book and it arrived yesterday afternoon. One of the methods he uses in there is cutting one side of the miter on the low side (waste on high side) then cutting the opposite miter the opposite way (waste on the low side, keeper on the high side). I've only been cutting with the keeper material on the high side.

Jason / Phil, I hadn't thought of only using the 1 runner sled as an option. That could be a very simple fix and I could use the cut off side of the sled for another jig.

Thanks again guys.

That is what I figured was happening but i didn't want to assume. I have made a few small boxes with sides cut on a picture frame type miter sled. Anyway, in that case I'm with Jason and Phil, I really don't like carrying the waste back and forth past the low side of the spinning blade. I figure it's just luck whether it spits it back at you or not and has nothing to do with your rails fit or your technique. Its a small projectile but a projectile none the less. I use a slider for those cuts at work, and the waste just falls away from the blade. Same thing will happen with a single runner sled, but with a two runner sled you are creating the right conditions for a forceful ejection.

I can see the logic to cutting opposing angles from opposite sides of the blade to cancel any error, but I'd rather set the blade to a perfect 45 and cut from the high side personally. If you do that I would push one sled all the way through to make two and use them independently.

[Todd Young]

I made a single runner sled yesterday and just let the waste fall to the table and it worked great. No projectiles at all. After a few cuts, I figured this would be the better option than the 2 runner sled. Just a better felling of safety with the 1 runner. Still using the long pencil to get the waste away from the blade, but I'll defintely go with the 1 runner sled when cutting 45*'s.

I'm with you as well. Cutting only on the high side seems the best way to go for me.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Ben Davis]

Nothing complicated is needed at all! What you really need is a shooting board and a nice sharp plane. You likely already have the plane. The shooting board can probably be made from scraps you also already have! How about that $0 solution!?!