Hock's High Carbon vs A2

[Pedro Reyes]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare or experience first hand the performance of Hock's high carbon vs A2 blades.

I have almost all my Stanleys retrofitted with A2 irons from Hock and I could not be happier, they are awesome and have greatly improved the performance of my planes. However, I've never tried the high carbon.

I am now fettling with a beautiful type 8 5&1/2, as you know this has the odd 2-1/4" iron, Hock only makes this in high carbon and not in A2.

I was thinking of going through the super fun task of griding 1/16" off each side of an A2 2-3/8" but as you know this is going to take some elbow grease, and a lot of care not to heat it up. Any pointers?

Should I just use the hight carbon, does anyone else make A2 at 2-1/4"?

Any help appreciated.
regards,

Pedro

[James Carmichael]

I didn't know anyone made 2 1/4" irons. I haven't tried the Hock irons yet, that's somewhere on my "to try" list. I've started out with Clifton cap irons from WW supply, at $12.50 each, that seemed like the least expensive route to better peformance.

Now maybe I won't shy away from the Bailey 5 1/2s on Ebay anymore.

[Mark Kelly]

Check out www.spehar-toolworks.com. He has a blade for a 5 1/2 that is 2 1/4" wide. And his prices are better than hock's. And, I believe all of them are A-2 steel.

[Pedro Reyes]

Bingo, thanks Marc, I'll comment on performance.

r/

pedro

[Gene Collison]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare or experience first hand the performance of Hock's high carbon vs A2 blades.

I have almost all my Stanleys retrofitted with A2 irons from Hock and I could not be happier, they are awesome and have greatly improved the performance of my planes. However, I've never tried the high carbon.

I am now fettling with a beautiful type 8 5&1/2, as you know this has the odd 2-1/4" iron, Hock only makes this in high carbon and not in A2.

I was thinking of going through the super fun task of griding 1/16" off each side of an A2 2-3/8" but as you know this is going to take some elbow grease, and a lot of care not to heat it up. Any pointers?

Should I just use the hight carbon, does anyone else make A2 at 2-1/4"?

Any help appreciated.
regards,

Pedro

There is nothing wrong with the high plane carbon irons, in fact many people prefer them. Supposedly it can be sharpened to a higher degree of sharpness, because the high carbon molecules are smaller than the A2 molecules. I believe that Hoch claims this himself, it also sharpens slightly easier. If you want an A2 iron, Lie Nielsen will have your iron in stock if they are currently cloning your Stanley and I believe they are. Hoch irons are now coming from France I believe. You can go to the LN website and order a LN iron.

Gene

[Roy Wall]

Gene,

You are right in your comments! I just got two high carbon 2 3/8" blades with the Hock chip breakers for my type 17 Stanley 5 1/2 and a newer Record #7 - in hopes of upgrading their performance. They are made in England.

Mark Kelly,

I'll check out Sephar as I forgot to obtain a newer Hock blades (2") for my Stanley #5 jack plane & #4 smoother - this will give another brand a test drive!!! Thanks!!

[Gene Collison]

[QUOTE=Roy Wall]Gene,

You are right in your comments! I just got two high carbon 2 3/8" blades with the Hock chip breakers for my type 17 Stanley 5 1/2 and a newer Record #7 - in hopes of upgrading their performance. They are made in England.
____________________________
Mark,

Interesting, England! My A2 blade is made in France. I guess they are Hoch branded blades now Vs. Hoch blades as they used to be. OK so long as they are good. Interesting these plane iron steels, I had one Steve Knight iron that wouldn't plane for 5 minutes without the need to resharpen. Steve's replacement seems to go on forever, he uses O1 (oil hardening tool steel) which I recall being hi carbon.

Gene

[Mark Kelly]

Pass the thanks onto our humble moderator who first told me about Spehar Toolworks. I personally haven't used them yet but am planning on it when I finally pony up the cash to replace my stock blades. I look foward to your review of the blades.

[Jerry Palmer]

I've not used either, but just ordered a high carbon from him for my 10 1/2 (that one is not available in A2 either, and is hard to find in any configuration).

My understanding, though, is that the A2 edge will last a bit longer, maybe quite a bit longer. While the A2 can take higher heat without damaging the temper, the high carbon can be annealed and retempered at home.

[Roy Wall]

Gene,

The Hock blades are made in France -my apologies for a hasty repliy without checking first. You are correct!!

I went down to the workbench to verify my post after I read yours........my blades are high carbon variety with "France" stamped right on them.

[Jamie Buxton]

Gene,

The Hock blades are made in France -my apologies for a hasty repliy without checking first. You are correct!!

I went down to the workbench to verify my post after I read yours........my blades are high carbon variety with "France" stamped right on them.

I went to a lecture by Ron Hock last year. (Fascinating. Steel is really weird stuff when you dig down in the details. For instance, the relations among alloying metals, quenching temperatures, and annealing schedules is quite complicated. Oddly enough, it is quite well understood. For a couple centuries, steel has been the primary construction material, and has been researched very intensively. Ron talked as fast as he could for an hour, and clearly could have talked another day.) At any rate, he mentioned that he's started outsourcing the production of some of his blades, and one of his outsources is in France. That is, a Hock blade may have been made in California at Hock's shop, in France, or elsewhere in the US. I didn't catch the location(s?) of the US sources. He has a site at www.hocktools.com.

Oh yeah... Reading between the lines of his talk, I got the impression that he thinks the traditional high-carbon steel blade is better than the A2, but market pressure has demanded that he offer an A2 blade. However, he's quite clear that he believes he's a steel guy, not a woodworker, so his opinion on the issue doesn't count for a great deal.

[Alan Turner]

I picked up a 604c Bedrock, and wanted a new iron. CAlled Hock, and Ron answered the phone. A real gentleman. I did not get the impression that he favored the carbon as opposed to the A-2 at all. He told me that some think that the high carbon steel will take a sharper edge, but will not hold it nearly as long, and I felt he was really recommending the A-2, which I ordered. It has been a great iron. I also purchased his new cap iron, and together they make a 604c very special.
Alan

[Fred Gorney]

I have a high carbon blade for a Millers Falls #8 based on a discussion & e-mail with Ron, and his website. For a smooth plane, I'd rather have the sharper edge, since I'm taking light cuts, and I'm not going to beat on it anyway, which (in my mind anyway) gives the nod the the high carbon blade. For something that sees rougher use, like a scrub plane or jack, I think A-2 would be the way to go. A jointer could go either way, I think, depending on how you like to use it.

Unfortunately, I don't have one of his A-2 blades, so I can't make an experienced comparison - yet.

[Tim Sproul]

For a smooth plane, I'd rather have the sharper edge, since I'm taking light cuts, and I'm not going to beat on it anyway, which (in my mind anyway) gives the nod the the high carbon blade.

I understand your rationale....but gotta ask - Can you tell if a board/panel has been surfaced with a high carbon versus an A2 ironed smoother? If not, I'd go choose A2 so long as your sharpening abrasive is up to it. If not, then stick with the high carbon steel.

[Fred Gorney]

Can you tell if a board/panel has been surfaced with a high carbon versus an A2 ironed smoother?

Can I? No, but since I don't have an A2 blade, that's not really saying anything. That's a good point/question though: How much sharper can you get a high carbon blade than an A2 iron? Can you see it in the wood? It may be that you can't see it, but you can feel it. I don't know. How much longer will the A2 blade hold it's edge? Twice as long? A couple strokes? The high carbon blade costs less.

Of course, sometimes just knowing how you did something is enough of a reason, whether any else can perceive it or not. Kind of like those mistakes no one can see, but you know they're there, so they bug you.

If someone has compared them directly, I'd be interested in hearing about it.