Best old chisel makers?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Sean, put your point together with the rest of the info, and I'm getting a plan put together. Sounds like there is not really a best old brand, they all made steel with the old methods, which caused a bit of inconsistancy. If I want perfectly consistant steel, buy one of the new makers, if I want to pick and choose, the old makers are fine. That brings Mikes point into play though.

Mike, that makes sense that the bad tools would have been weeded out over the years.

George, that was a very interesting post, thanks!

[David Keller NC]

Steve - Like the other posters, I've experienced inconsistent quality from antique chisels. Usually, the older and nicer condition ones perform the worst. That makes sense - they're in excellent shape for a reason.

However, as George noted in many cases the excellent condition 150 year old ones can be re-hardened and re-tempered. However, the best results if you're not experienced at this is at a local metal treating operation, and by the time you pay for the heat treating, you may as well have bought new, modern ones.

There's one exception to this in my experience. I've a number of old blades and chisels from I. Sorby, and they are uniformly excellent. Note that this is not the same firm as R. Sorby. However, the problem is that the antique tool market also thinks highly of I. Sorby, and you will pay as much or more for an I. Sorby chisel as you will for a moderately priced modern one, particularly if it has a london-pattern boxwood handle.

[Derek Cohen]

...the bad tools would have been weeded out over the years.

No. The problem is that the tools have been in the hands of a variety of individuals, and the would-be purchaser of a vintage blade has no idea whether those individuals treated the steel well or poorly. It does not take too much to change the temper of carbon steel on a grinder ... even a hand cranked one.

I have had Wetherbys. Mostly were good, but the steel did not survive chopping into the local hardwoods. Ditto Stanley 750s. So they were sold. I have a set of Bergs that I have put together over a number of years. These are all near full length blades (i.e. not much use before I got them) and are only used for paring. Beautiful steel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[willie sobat]

I have a set of Stanley 750s. I love them. I have no issues with edge retention. The ergonomics are great.

[george wilson]

We had a huge collection of old tools in the museum. Some of them were indeed in excellent condition because they never worked. Most good stuff got used up. There are,of course,exceptions. I have seen old tools all over the map on quality of temper,even of the same make.

[James Carmichael]

I think just about every brand you mentioned there are good, but I'll throw in some more: PEXTO (or P.S.&W, short for Peck, Stow, &Wilcox), Ward (not to be confused with Monkey Wards), and Greenlee.

I understand a bunch of uncirculated Swans were uncovered in a old New England hardware store not too long ago.

[Gary Herrmann]

I've got mostly Greenlees, with a few Unions, Pexto and Lakeside

[Richard Niemiec]

Don't overlook the older Craftsman branded socket chisels, some were made by Greenlee as I understand it, and I have 2 or 3 that are just excellent; for some reason I've had to make new handles for each of them (I think they cheaped out on the handles) but the business ends work for me. I've also had a couple that I lend out to neighbors.......

[Martin Cash]

There is plenty of good advice here.
On the topic of older chisels and the quality thereof, Bob Smalser has written extensively on this forum.
Here is some of what he has had to say:

If you already have good grinding and honing skills and can also make handles, then flea markets and local and on-line tool auctions are an inexhaustible source of top-quality, high-carbon tools; often at prices less than you’d pay for the equivalent quantity of raw tool steel. Of course, you are trading your labor and rehabilitation skills for the money you save – and the labor can be considerable. I’ve done a bit of this at various auctions for myself and for tradesmen friends who don’t use computers, and I’ll share what I’ve learned.

As long as the chisel is old, factory-made, and intact with good length remaining, I’m not too concerned about condition short of severe pitting. For me, blade backs are easily ground on the belt sander to flatten and remove pits, sockets can be repaired, steel can be polished and blued to hide rust staining, and handles are easily made on the lathe. Anything marked "Stanley", "Witherby", "Winchester", “James Swan”, "Chas Buck" or "L&IJ White" is generally going to a collector for too high a price unless they are part of large, handleless lots. Older (not newer) Greenlee and Buck Bros, New Haven Edge Tool, Ohio Tool, Crossman, DR Barton, Underhill, Union Hardware, Jennings, Sargent, GI Mix, Shapleigh Hardware, Eric Anton Berg, Dickerson, Gillespie, Wye, Dixon, PS&W or PEXTO, Robt Duke, Fulton, Merrill, Butcher, Stiletto, Hibbard OVB, Simmons Keen Kutter, Lakeside and several other old makers and hardware store brands are every bit as good as the collector prizes and are much less expensive. Most unmarked chisels of that era were usually made by one of the above makers for a hardware distributor and are also generally excellent.

The only really poor socket chisels I've observed are newer Craftsman (older socket Craftsman were often made by Greenlee) of shiny, chrome-vanadium steel, some "Eclipse" brand and the occasional Stanley Defiance that refuse to take an excellent edge. Also, used tool dealers rarely know their wares well, and you have to look at each and every listing in detail to find what you need.

Having rehabbed around 200 of these old chisels and gouges over the past several years, I'll offer a quality opinion based on the ones I've used:

Top-Tier:

Witherby
Swan
Gillespie
New Haven Edge gov't contracts marked "USA" or "USN"

Hard to Call between First and Second....but always most excellent:

DR Barton
PS&W or PEXTO
Greenlee thin paring chisels
Buck gouges


Second-Tier:

Stanley
Stilletto
Ohio Tool
New Haven Edge
White
Older Buck (older chisels will have sockets, which went out around the time forging did)
Older Greenlee
Older Craftsman made by Greenlee
Winchester
Wye
Chas Buck
Douglas (precurser company to Swan)
GI Mix
Eric Anton Berg
Underhill
Jennings
Sargent
KeenKutter
Hibbard OBV
Dixon
Robt Duke
Fulton
Merrill
Butcher
Lakeside
Union Hardware
Dickerson
Shapleigh Hardware (Diamond Edge brand)

Third-Tier (Don't buy)

Stanley Defiance
Eclipse
Newer Greenlee, Buck or Stanley socket chisels made in the 1960's and later.
Any chisel with a vanadium finish like used on today's mechanic's tools.

Al the hardware store brands were made by a larger chisel manufacturer. Greenlee seems to have made a lot of them. One store bought from Witherby....Shapleigh?...but I don't remember which one. Shapleigh bought Sargent planes as house brands, and may be the one whose chisels were made in Winsted, Conn.

The rest is to be found here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13734

[Wayne Wheeling]

Makes me chuckle everytime I read that excerpt by Smalser! I used his list almost as a shopping list over the last couple years. I have a "thing" for chisels! I've just about wiped out the 1st and second tier..need to make notes about which names I'm missing. I've lost count, but I love old chisels! I have a 6pc set of LN and the full set of LN Mortise chisels. I still reach for one of my old ones the majority of the time. My L&IJ Whites just happen to have the perfect socket for LN hornbeam handles. Now that makes a sweet combo. I would hate to narrow down to one useable set of chisels. The hunt can be quite fun also!

[george wilson]

KeenKutter is 2nd. tier? The best drawknife I've ever had is KeenKutter,and I paid $1.00 for it. I've given several others away. Butcher too?

Roy Underhill will be unhappy his ancestor's make are also. Never had any of his.