#3 vs #4

[Tom Godley]

I recently made a jointers work bench at a week long class.

Prior to the class I cleaned and upgraded my best two old Stanley's, a #4.5 and #8C with Hock blades and I purchased a LN 102 and a new style LV block plane. I also happen to have a nice Millers Falls #14 (#5) that I took along.

Most of the people in the class had LN #4s or #5s -- some had LV planes in similar sizes. Also available were all the LV bevel up planes.

The bench was made out of hard maple and as I worked through the building process I realized that for the most part I was using the smaller planes. We had jointed and surfaced all of the wood and the hand work was smoothing glue joints, fitting M&T joints and fitting the areas around the two vices.

So I got to thinking about what planes I would actually be using going forward.

I used a LN #4 a few times but found that I actually liked the heft of the #4.5 going through the maple when I wanted this size plane. Other times when the 4.5 felt a little large -- the #4 still too big.

I understand the historical use of the Stanley range of planes and how many can and do have more than one use. But why not more talk of the #3? It looks like it would be the perfect fit for those using a combination of machine and hand.

Also -- The #5 is often recommended as the first plane to get but then not used if other sizes are available?? I never touched mine.

For those with a #3 and a #4 -- what one do you pick up?

[Brian Kent]

#4.

But so often there is a range of choices where one works better than the other for no logical reason that I can understand.

I made a couple of Krenov planes in the #3 size range and use them pretty often.

Brian

[Matt Hankins]

I know this is dramatically over simplifying this, but the first thing I would think about is the size of your hands. The #3 is often uncomfortable to use for someone with larger hands. The #3 can be ground with a large sweep to hog more material and leave more prominent tool marks. I like the feel of my 3 and like the finish it leaves. If I want something smoother I use the 4. The 5 is great for flattening as the longer sole makes for more surface area in contact with the material. I find that I will reach for each plane when I am working when I feel I need it. All of the planes perform differently, not only based on their size but also on the grind, the heft, the feel of the handle, and my personal preferences. I buy planes as they come along, tune them and try them. Some get used and some get relegated to the shelf or resold. If you have an opportunity to try a plane for a while without purchasing it you can get the feel that way. Before I got my 3 I used a 603 that belonged to my boss at the time. That's when I knew that I really liked working with that size plane.

Matt

[Matt Evans]

I know this is dramatically over simplifying this, but the first thing I would think about is the size of your hands. The #3 is often uncomfortable to use for someone with larger hands. Matt

Right on. I really want a #3, but can't get over how uncomfortable it is. Even a #4 is a a bit small for someone who wears a size 13 wedding ring.

To make it easier for myself, I use a coffin smoother in a #3 size. It fits my hand better, and releives tensions in the muscles in my hand. Since I switch often between planes, and have had several bones in my hands broken, tension and knots seem to form after a few minutes using a plane. The location of these are different for all the planes though, so switching between the coffin and the #4 makes a world of difference.

Now, if I could figure out a good tote configuration for a #3, I would get one in a heartbeat.

The #5 is probably my most versatile plane. Use it as a fore plane, a jointer for small items, a shooting plane, a jack for pretty much everything. . .

If I had to do all of my work with two planes, I would probably use a #5 and a 9 1/4 block plane.

Take it all with a grain of salt though. It really comes down to personal work technique and preference.

[Jim Koepke]

I like my #3 and use it often, but it rests a bit further from the bench than one of my #4s and #5s.

It is hard to figure which one will feel right at the time of using. While working a few small (2x4x1/2 inch) pieces, the #4-1/2 seemed to be the right plane to smooth the surface.

The #3 is what gave me the idea of getting a #5-1/4. The ones I have feel a bit awkward. I think it has to do with the flat sided handles being uncomfortable. I have handled a #605-1/4 that felt very comfortable. The price on the Bedrock version is too far out there for my wallet.

jim

[Sam Takeuchi]

I don't think what others are using are important. What's important is what size of plane(s) suit your technique, size of your hands and task in question. #3 and #4 will work equally well for smoothing, you decide the rest if you want to use #3 or #4. There are times when #3 is too small, or #4 is too big. If you had both, you can change, but if I absolutely have to choose between #3, 4, 4-1/2, I'd go with #4, because it's small enough to use on relatively small work piece (plenty of small tasks), but still big enough to do general and final smoothing. #3 might be too small for smoothing relatively large board and 4-1/2 might be too big to work on small pieces. But my current favorite smoother is a #4-1/2 sized one, because I have smaller and nimbler planes for smaller work.

#5 is good, because it does most of things well. Not great, but well. It can be used for rough work, flattening, jointing, smoothing and such. But if there are other planes, for example, #7, #5-1/2 and #3 or 4, then #5 becomes somewhat...inadequate. Simply because #7 will do good jointing work as well as flattening, #5-1/2 will do rough work to dimensioning, and #3 or 4 will do good smoothing. And they are designed for that. But it depends on your project, too. If you are making a small box, #5 is as good as a jointer. Once again, if #5 suits your task, there is no reason not to use it.

For other people to bring #4-1/2 sized planes for bench making, it may be simply a matter of convenience. You can surely make a bench with only smoother. I made one with only #4 when I only had #4 (6' x 2' bench at that). But for flattening top, a #7 would've certainly worked more efficiently.

I don't think you need to wonder what planes you would need in the future. Use what you have. If for some tasks your planes don't work well or feels awkward, then you can consider why it is so, maybe it's because this plane is too large, heavy, small or whatever. A set of planes are very personal thing, it's probably better for you to figure out your need than to base on other people's set. Simply because other people's hands, technique and projects aren't the same as yours. Their set is built from their need and you'll build from your need, too.

[jerry nazard]

[QUOTE=Sam Takeuchi;1205538]I don't think what others are using are important. What's important is what size of plane(s) suit your technique, size of your hands and task in question. #3 and #4 will work equally well for smoothing, you decide the rest if you want to use #3 or #4. There are times when #3 is too small, or #4 is too big.

I certainly agree with Sam. The No. 3 plane came to me way after I thought I could do all smoothing with a #4 or 4 1/2. I find myself using the #3 quite a bit: it's small, easy to push around, and gets the job done.

-Jerry

[David Keller NC]

I have a #2, #3, a #4, a #4-1/2, and a #5. So my $0.02 - This question doesn't really depend on your hand size, it depends on the size of the work you're doing. I often use my #2, though there's no way that my hand will fit comfortably between the tote and the frog. Instead, I wrap my hand around the back of the tote with my fingers resting on the side of the plane and the side of the frog - sort of like a block plane.

The reason I use the #2 is that I often make miniature 18th century furniture, and a block plane is too small and/or too uncomfortable to use for long periods, and a #3, #4, or larger is too big for the work - small 1:6 scale bedposts get lost under the plane sole of a larger plane, and I can't see what I'm doing.

For boxes, I generally use the #3 as a smoother, and the #5 as the jointer.

For full-scale furniture, it's the #4 or #4-1/2 for the smoothing, and a #8 for the jointer.

So I'd say it depends on what you want to do. If the answer is "I don't know yet, but definitely includes full-size furniture", and excellent compromise is the #4. If it's a L-N, you can certainly sell it for nearly the price you paid for it in case you want to get something else.

[Sam Takeuchi]

If you are thinking about buying #3, consider LV low angle block plane with optional handle and knob as well. While I don't really care for LV low angle block plane on its own (too big and too heavy for my liking), with handle and knob, it's a spiffy #3 sized low angle plane that provides more versatility than a normal #3. I like it a lot.

[Jim Becker]

Tom, I have a LN #62 (low angle 5 sized) and two #4 size planes, one a LN and one and older Stanley restored by Terry Hatfield. I like them all, frankly. All three figured into my English Brown Oak hall table that was never touched with sandpaper, but mostly the #4s after I was done flattening the boards. I found them to be the right size for my hand. A #3 may not have worked as well for me in that respect.

I happen to like what Sam just mentioned. I started out with the LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane and it's probably my most used plane. I not only use it for the "obvious", but also as a "little smoother" when the smaller size fits the need.