Harbor Freight - "Good Enuf" technology?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO the difference is if you use the tools EVERY day. Yes, I would spend money on a Festool, IF I had to use it on a day to day basis. Same as a Snap-On wrench vs Craftsman. Worth triple the price? When I used them EVERY day, yes it made a difference. To the average homeowner, probably not. Stihl chainsaw for the lumberjack? Absolutely. $3K saw for the homeowner? Nah, pass. This board is probably made up of primarily weekenders, so for the majority of us, the HF junk is "good enough", and worth buying.

Sad to say, the "craftsman" is a dying breed. Replaced by CAD/CAM routers. Computer driven assembly lines. Take pride in your own work. Even if you use a HF Fien knockoff.

Just my .02.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I have no biases based on quality or price. There is nothing to be ashamed of having HF stuff, it is simply a trade-off to spend more money on higher quality.

The difference between a HF and quality tool is you know the quality tool has a reputation to maintain and will work great for a long time. The HF tools have everything to gain so when you use a HF tool, you are basically wondering when this tool is going to die. heh

[Mike Cruz]

I have to make a comment on the HF thing. I have spoken my mind a few times, but have bit my tongue more times than not.

It is simple: Buy the HF sawsall. Use it. One or two jobs/uses? Okay, you got your money's worth. Use it any more than that and you will be swearing off the stuff and cursing the day you bought it. I did, and I did. For a couple reasons. The things vibrates more than a deisel running on 5 cyclinders. The screw that holds the blade in loosens in under a minute. And I STILL have the stupid thing because it still works. Not well, but works. Had I bought a quality one, or even semi quality one back when I got this one (ten some odd years ago) I would pick it up and use it whenever a project called for it. Now I use it only when absolutely necessary, and dread it.

Off my soap box now...off to have a beer...

[Joe Little]

This reminds me of an article in Atlantic magazine last year that women shouldn't keep looking for Mr Right when Mr Goodenough will do! Very entertaining and maybe the same rules apply here.

[Augusto Orosco]

Good enough is a relative measure. It means something different from different people, and even for the same person trying to accomplish a different objective.

I once bought a cheap and simple big store jig-saw. It was good enough to cut a hole in the back of a cheap IKEA bookcase so my tube TV could stand in one of the shelves. Unfortunately, it convinced me that jig saws were imprecise, frustrating, vibrating beasts. Similar experience with a cheap block plane I bought at a borg.

Now I own a Bosch Jigsaw and a LV block plane. Needless to say, my ideas on what can be accomplished with a Jig Saw and a Block Plane have changed dramatically.

Nothing wrong with cheap stuff that does the job at hand and appears to be 'good enough'. But sometimes we don't know what we are missing. Some tools appear expensive, but they more than make it up with their superior performance and how much easier and pleasurable they are to use.

The tool certainly doesn't make the woodworker, but a good tool can help unleash that hidden potential we didn't know we have. For those who are at this as a hobbie and whose time is limited, a good tool allows us to reach a higher level of competence faster and in a more enjoyable way.

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

The first (price) is generally the same for all.
The second (value) is different for everyone.

I assume things will be "good enough" as long as people have a high velocity of cash to buy application specific tools. As access to money constricts I expect to see more people be willing to pay for things that last and can be utilized again (or sold).

[Alex Leslie]

Perhaps the "good enough" tools may be bad for the soul...

I find that I cuss much less while working with quality tools, because they do what I intend without difficulty. Inadequate tools that fail or make work difficult lead to frustration and more cussing.

I think I'm a few thousand "Hail Mary's" ahead since I switched to Festool!

[Rod Sheridan]

Perhaps the "good enough" tools may be bad for the soul...

I find that I cuss much less while working with quality tools, because they do what I intend without difficulty. Inadequate tools that fail or make work difficult lead to frustration and more cussing.

I think I'm a few thousand "Hail Mary's" ahead since I switched to Festool!

Good point Alex.

I find that good tools are a pleasure to use, motivate me to try to do better work (sometimes doesn't work), and bring a smile to my face, (always works).

For me, woodworking is a hobby, which means it must bring pleasure and rewards to my life. Good tools and machinery do that, poor tools and machinery do the opposite.

Yes I could cut a piece of wood with a circular saw attached to a piece of plywood and call it a table saw, or I could use a Euro slider.

Which do you think i would enjoy more, and get more satisfaction from?

Anyone who has stood in the Felder showroom, sliding an X Roll table back and forth with a dazed look on their face, while their wife just shakes her head, will understand completely.

Hobbies, like art, performance and literature enrich our lives, I'm only going to get one life, so I'm sure not going to waste it on poor art, plays I don't like, poor literature, or cheap tools.

Regards, Rod.

[george wilson]

I am trying to be flexible in my judgement of HF tools due to the large number of earlier posts that have been seen in this forum. Many have described the long use and reliability they have gotten from their HF tools. So,they can't be all bad.

I think there is a gamble involved in buying cheap imports. Personally,I seem to have been lucky,though I do not have many HF tools. Just the brad gun,and a $99.00 wooden machinist's chest which HAS NOT had the bottoms of the drawers fall out,though I have certainly heard stories from people I know personally who have had that very thing happen. I can tell you that that HF chest I have is loaded with endmills,and is completely full of steel reamers,drill bits,endmills,etc.. It would take 2 strong men to lift it. I do not think a Gerstner would be any stronger,just finished a bit better,at 15 times the price.

[Matt Armstrong]

I'll point out that digital cameras do NOT pale in comparison to a silver halide photo... the resolution of a 35mm ISO100 piece of film is about 20 megapixels. The resolution of a 35mm ISO1600 piece of film is far less. The Canon 5d Mark II is 21 megapixels and takes reasonable pictures at far higher ISOs... silver halide grains are not perfectly analog nor do they offer "unlimited" resolution. If there's only 21 million grains, you can't get more than 21 megapixels, etc

.

Now, cost is another factor. cheap film would allow one to take 21mp shots more often than the cost of a canon camera. But yet, in this case, you see people tossing aside the cheap solutions (film cameras) in favor of very expensive DSLRs. I don't think that the "good enuf" effect is anything new, it's just rational consumption. Cheap tools for hobbyists make a lot of sense. Nice tools for professionals also make sense. There was a market demand for a solution that was cheaper for a lot of things and HF fits the bill.

I, frankly, love free trade (see avatar).

[James Carmichael]

that "From digital music to video cameras to Military aircraft, cheap and simple beats perfect almost every time. It's called the MP3 effect, and it will change everything."

The article details numerous applications of the concept - including elawyering services and strip-mall medical "clinics" in addition to the headline services - with the general theme of close is good enough for most applications and 90-95% of the time.

So does that mean you only hear 90-95% of the notes on your digital music?

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but whether it's military aircraft or heart surgery, close is not good enough.

[Alex Leslie]

"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

[Brian Effinger]

"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

And don't forget: atomic bombs!

[johnny means]

I believe that part of what we pay for with name brand tools is a pedigree. A harbor Freight tool may be a real gem of a deal, then again some of their stuff is absolute crap and not worth the trip to the store if it was free. On the other hand I know anything with Milwaukee on it is the shiznit. I guess the question is "What would it cost me if it failed?" Might not be much for the hobbyist might be hundreds or thousands, even a reputation for the professional.

[Ron Bott]

For me, woodworking is a hobby, which means it must bring pleasure and rewards to my life. Good tools and machinery do that, poor tools and machinery do the opposite..

Couldn't have said it better. I don't understand the allure of HF tools. Either people don't know the difference between a quality tool and a throw-away tool, or the are victims of the "must have it now" mentality. In either case you're probably better server waiting and buying something better.