Ready to buy DC A few questions

[tim walker]

Narrowed down to SuperGorilla 3 hp and ClearVue(5hp). The fan curves look similar. Oneida has been around a long time and has a great reputation. CV is a much younger company. I am leaning toward the CV as it is considerably less expensive with same performance,

My questions are:

1 Everyone talks about needing to build a separate room for the CV for noise abatement, but I never see that for teh SG. Any reason? i always wear sound muting earmuffs anyway if I am running a tool that requires DC.

2 I am a little concerned about the usage of Particle board on CV? Any comments on that?

Thanks all

PS One man hobbyist shop, PWRM 64A, MM16, Delta 6" jointer, 13" planer, Sliding miter saw, router table, drill press, drum sander. I would like to be able to run two tools at once sometimes.

[Fred Hargis]

I have a SDG (started life as a 2HP, is now a 5HP) ana can tell you that 1.) it's plenty loud, 2.) I always wear hearing protection so it doesn't matter. Even if the cyclone was totally quiet, the tool it's connected would force me to wear hearing protection. 3.) (speculation on my part) the CV is louder; my thinking is that the Lexan has less sound dampening, and there is a more sophisticated design (the air ramp and shape of the inlet) that is just noisier when air is moving through it. and for the record, I'm probably the only one who would tell you this: I wish I had went with the CV from the beginning. I'm not terribly happy with the separation I get from the SDG (factory specs 99%, I get 98.6% and believe it to be not good enough). All of this of course, is totally my opinion only. But let me add, the SDG moves a LOT of air....and I am happy with that part. Very little gets past it, though I'm sure the same thing can be said about the CV.

[Rich Neighbarger]

+1 for the CV. I made my collector years ago based on the same design as the CV and my filters aren't showing any signs of needing cleaning or replaced yet. And yes, it too moves a large amount of air. It sucks up everything. Just keep the family pets away from the intake.

My only gripe is that the dust bin needs emptied weekly. Perhapps, one day, I'll make a bigger one.

[Robert Reece]

I have a ClearVue and overall I am quite happy. It moves a lot of air. I had to build or rebuild all dust collection hookups for my machines. Tablesaw upgraded to 6" port. Bandsaw upgraded. Drill press, miter saw, etc. Even my dovetail jig has collection from my Clearvue now.

The MDF mounting plate is workable. It sagged somewhat for me so I screwed a couple of southern yellow pine 1x2's across it and it's fine now.

It's not that loud. It's not as loud as the machine I am running. I can hang out with the CV running with no hearing protection. However, I can not run many of my tools without hearing protection. It does get on my nerves after several minutes of running if I don't have ear protection on and I am trying to figure something out. You don't want to turn the motor on and off so I try to line up everything I want to cut and turn on the DC and get to it. But sometimes I have to stop and think so I leave it running and after a few minutes I can't think straight so I have to shut it off.

Mine has not been sound proofed at all with the exception of a 12' of flex duct between the unit and filters. The flex duct does provide some sound deadening. If at all possible, install your filters away from the cyclone so you can use flex duct (8") to get to your filters.

I think the PETG plastic probably absorbs more sound than the metal Oneida. Just my thoughts, could be wrong about that.

Clearvue blast gates could use some improvements. Although I just ordered 3 more yesterday, so apparently they are good enough. My main complaint with them is that you can pull the gate completely out which would rob some of your air flow and probably create a lot of turbulence at the gate. It can easily be modified, but it's just more stuff to do.

I am also guessing that you'll spend more time getting the CV running. How much more I don't know, but you might want to factor it in.

[Burt Alcantara]

I've had the CV1400 for about 2 years. It's primary use is to suck up sanding dust from my lathe and get rid of some of the shavings that wander all over the shop. It is very powerful.

I'm a one man shop with only 2 tools hooked up: Powermatic 3520b lathe and Grizzly G0512X2. I have 3 4" ports at the bandsaw with 2 open for sawing and 1 used to clean the table top when it gets covered with debris (I cut large logs). Sometimes I forget to open and close the appropriate gates so 3 4" gates and 1 6" gate are sometimes open at the same time. I hardly notice any difference in operation since everything gets sucked in.

As far as noise, I moved the cyclone to an adjacent room only a few feet away. It is enough to attenuate the noise so I don't need any ear protection. If you go to the ClearVue site, there are a number of solutions posted for ideas.

I find the efficiency far outweighs and negatives associated with noise.

Not sure what you mean re particle board. The system uses MDF which has yet to show any signs of wear or sag.

Hope this helps,
Burt

[Cliff Holmes]

A sound closet is a definite plus. I just finished mine and I'm getting over 13db of noise reduction. More inportantly, it's down from the edges of hearing damage (according to osha) to just above normal conversation levels.

While I wear hearing protection anyway for most tools, my wife doesn't when working on her lathe, without the sound closet she'd have to.

[John Harden]

I'm not terribly happy with the separation I get from the SDG (factory specs 99%, I get 98.6% and believe it to be not good enough).

.4% off spec?!?!? I'm dying to know how you figured this out and why you cared enough to spend the time. Not slamming you, but your matter of fact statement just struck me as funny.

OP, I have the 2HP Oneida Pro and it moves quite a lot of air (though I'd like to have more) and I don't consider it noisy. On the other hand it is hidden away at the far corner of my 3.5 car garage shop. I recently visited the shop of an owner of a 3HP Pro and it was noticably louder, even with a silencer installed (which I do not have).

As with most things, I'd suggest you try to see both in action up close and make up your mind. I've heard good things about the CV. About the only bad thing I've heard is its more of a kit than a finished product. Having said that, cyclones are not terribly complicated devices. To the best of my knowledge, CV comes with the motor installed on the blower and the plastic cyclone. I think you make up a few parts and a way to mount it and you're done. Given that it is about 900 pounds lighter (joking) than the Oneida it probably takes about the same amount of time to fab up the parts as it does to wrestle together the Oneida and install it.

Just my .02.

Regards,

John

[Erik Christensen]

I built a small enclosure and positioned the outlet vent so that all the exhaust air is routed though the top of the closet and by the motor. I figure if you have 1500 CFM of free air movement why not duct it past the motor to keep it cool. I added some 1" angle iron I got from the BORG to the front & back of the MDF platform that supports the motor and it does not sag in the least. As for the rest of the MDF components they support basically no load at all & I put a coat of water based poly on to seal them - overkill for sure because if you have a lot of moisture in a dust system you have other issues to deal with.

The guys at CV have a secret impeller housing fix that gives about a 3 DB noise reduction that they can tell you about if you ask nice - when I talked with them a few months ago they were careful about discussing it as they had not filed a patent yet. They were the guys who invented the mini cyclone that you used for your shop vac - got one of them years ago when they 1st came out & works great. From what I hear Oneida ripped off their design, patented it & are now suing the CV guys for infringement - one more reason why I would not buy from Oneida.

I have 6" PVC mains to all machines & when I am at a machine with the system running all I hear is air noise thru the pipes and machine not the DC impeller - my 15" planer with spiral cutter head is so quiet I have learned to turn it on first to make sure it is running as I can't hear it over the DC air flow noise.

[Jim O'Dell]

Tim, I'm also a big fan of the CV. I've had mine for 4 years now. Only up and running for 2 1/2. Bought it in May of 2005, and didn't have electricity turned on for a while. In fact, I was still working on the shop rebuild at that time.
It moves a lot of air as the others have said. And I agree, the woodworking machines, especially with the air moving through them, are a lot louder than the cyclone. I have a closet started on mine, but no doors yet to close it off from the shop (20 X 24-cyclone in the middle of one of the 20' walls). Now one thing that has helped my noise is that I'm able to exhaust outside. It does sound like a small turbine running out there. But not too high pitched. I'm in a detached shop, so noise isn't a problem for the house. I also mounted my cyclone on a separate frame that does not touch the walls of the shop. So no sympathetic vibration noise. I also used some 1 1/2" steel angle iron on the front and back of my blower/motor mounting board. This board sits on top of two 2X4s on the other two sides. Very solid. I also did 2 coats of water based poly on all my MDF parts. Some have painted them to match their shops. Others have done nothing to the MDF. I wanted to seal mine since my shop is not climate controlled.
Unless things have changed, the motor does not come mounted to the blower housing or fan. I'd be afraid that the blower would be destroyed by the shipping process if it was all mounted together. But it is a very easy set up. I would say, aside from any sealing or painting you would want to do, you could easily install the cyclone body and motor in under 5 hours. Especially if you had help to lift the motor!!! That 5hp Leeson is a brute to lift!! The time you spend during assembly is part of the money savings you reap when buying the CV.
If you decide on the CV and are interested, I have a list of things I found out when I did mine that I can PM or email to you. Little things, like the angle iron, that I found useful. Some things that are overkill, but that's me.
Nothing wrong with the Oneida. I just found the CV fit what I was looking for in a cyclone better, fit my pocket book better, and had the better design, IMHO, that Bill Pentz perfected. To top it off, I couldn't have asked for a better person to deal with on a big purchase than Ed Morgano. Any questions you have, he is willing to spend time with you to make sure you have the information you need to make the right decision for you. He is a no pressure type of guy that really does like to help people.
Oh, and the material is not Lexan. It is PTEG. The same stuff that Police riot shields are made out of, so it's plenty tough. I had a client that ran a plastics company that I quizzed pretty good before I purchased the CV. Had to explain what a cyclone was and it's use, but once he understood the function, he said the PTEG should be very good for that use.
Any specific questions, let us know! Jim.

[Chuck Isaacson]

Hi Tim. I just did the same thing and installed a centralized DC system. Can I ask why you are going so big? How big is your shop? I see that you want to be able to run two tools at once sometimes. I can tell you that I just installed my Penn State 2.5HP Tempest Cyclone and there is more than enough power to run both my 6" jointer and my 13" planer. This thing makes some noise. It is rated on the website at 75dB. I really ahve nothing to compare it too but it dosent bother me at all. This also has two .5 micron filters. I know another person that has this same DC and has had it for several years and has no complaints. He also works for a major woodworking magazine. All that I am saying is you can save a lot of money. I can guarantee that this will be a cheaper alternative. Take a look.

Chuck

[John Harden]

Chuck, it could be that he would like to see very high CFM at each collector point. I'm not one to hype the "dangers" of airborne dust like so many are, but it is almost never a bad thing to have lots of CFM. We've all seen the recommendations that table saws and planers should have 800 cfm at the collector point.

Personally, I'm not bothered by wood dust of any kind, but still want to collect as much of it as I can at the point of origin. I'm also pretty darn lazy and leave one, two, or even three ports open at a time.

Just bought a new saw/shaper combo and the manufacturer recommends a MINIMUM of 1000 cfm at the machine. Add in elbows, long runs, etc., and you very quickly realize that you need 1500 or more at the source with even ONE blast gate open.

Sorry, not trying to preach at you. Only trying to advocate for more CFM when you can get it. The point of purchase is the most cost effective time to buy air movement.

I agree with you that it can be noisy though. The bigger the impeller and more air that is moved the more noise it creates.

Regards,

John

[Tom Veatch]

I'll echo Rich's comment. Mine is a homebuilt to the Pentz design from one of Bill's kits. Same design as the CV except sheetmetal. Couldn't ask for better. Only time I see anything in the outlet/filters is when I run a bunch of MDF. That stuff is like fine flour and I don't think any cyclone will separate that from the airstream.

Can't comment directly on the CV itself, but the Pentz design is top notch. I bought a larger impeller from Ed when I enlarged my shop and needed more system. He's a good guy to deal with.

[Tom Veatch]

... As a matter of fact, I keep at least three blast gates open at all times. If I close more than that it significantly reduces airflow. ...

Could you elaborate on that a little bit? I don't understand how closing blast gates on unused machines can decrease airflow at the machine in use.

[John Coloccia]

Another vote for the Clearvue. I love mine. The only pain in the butt part is making the trash can lid. Other than that, it's all pretty straightforward. My filters get practically no dust in them at all. It's quite remarkable...I've never seen anything like it. For anyone industrious, I think there's definately a small market for a well engineered dust bin for the Clearvue. I'm currently making a top out of ply.

I'll also mention that I wouldn't buy an Oneida product just on principle. They have a whole section where they compare with competitors products, including the Clearvue, and it's rather disgusting and classless, IMHO. For example, where they compare the Clearvue impeller with their own, they show a close up of the tack weld on Clearvue's. If you look on the other side, you'll find a very well done continous weld. When I was looking, I was going back and forth between the Oneida and the Clearvue. This pushed me over the edge.

[Michael Peet]

I have the Oneida 2HP SDG. I like it well enough - although I consider dust collection to be the most boring (but necessary) "tool" purchase I have had to make.

I narrowed it down to the CV and Oneida models. The deciding factors for me were:

• All I had to do with the SDG was assemble it. It looked like the CV was a little more do-it-yourself, and I didn't care to spend shop time on it.
• Oneida is actually nearby me, so I was able to go pick it up and save money on the shipping.
• The SDG had pretty consistently good reviews.

After owning it for close to a year, I don't have anything negative to say about it. The assembly instructions were good, it moves a lot of air, and I don't find a lot of dust makes it through the filters.

Best of luck with your decision!

Mike