Spraying Latex Paint

[Doug Hobkirk]

I have a Wagner small spray gun (small compressor connected by air hose to gun that contains the paint in a screw on can). I am using it (for the first time) to try and spray 2 chairs and a bench. I have to dilute the latex (Valspar Premium Interior/Exterior, excellent review in Consumer Reports, if I remember correctly) by 30% to get the viscosity measuring cup to drip out in 45 seconds. I have tried it with and without some Flotrel (sp?) - I did not notice any difference.

I have several questions:

1. Is it OK to dilute latex that much (30%)
2. Should I do several light coats (not full coverage, some of original finish showing through) or as heavy (wet) as I can without dripping?
3. How long should I wait between coats - dry to lightly touch or longer?
4. How long can I wait before cleaning the spray gun? I.e., can I leave the paint in there between coats?
5. What else should I be asking?

I have already done some spraying - 2 coats. I find drips are a real problem - the latex needs to dry quite a long time (more than a couple of days) before I can sand them out - otherwise the latex acts like a rubber skin and the edge between sanded-down-to-the-wood and the paint will be like a hole in the paint with a distinct ridge.

Thanks.

[Phil Phelps]

Doug, you are paddling up stream with spaghetti for oars.
I can't recommend latex paint for furniture. You see the problems you are having with spraying latex in a siphon gun. Floetrol won't be of any help, either. Latex is sprayed using an airless. Even a HVLP won't do you any good whatsoever. If you want to continue, you'll need several mist coats, maybe a dozen, to achieve decent coverage. You'd have been much better off using alkyd enamel. Latex just wasn't made for furniture. Good luck.

[Todd Carpenter]

Hi Doug,

I can't argue with Phil regarding the durability issue, but latex can be successfully sprayed with an airbrush or hvlp. Thinning it that much is okay but what you thin it with is what's critical. Instead of water you'll use the cheapest windshield washer fluid you can find. Don't worry about the blue color, it doesn't seem to affect the final color. Since you're using an air gun, you'll need to dial the pressure up to about 45 psi.

Just spray light coats on the vertical surfaces and you shouldn't have issues with drips and runs. I've sprayed kitchen cabinets and miles of trim this way and the results have been fantastic. I did a small desk and dresser in my two daughter's rooms and both of them have held up surprisingly well. They were cheap and we didn't expect them to last but they're still going with no blocking issues yet - I have no explanation for that because I'm expecting it to happen at any moment it just hasn't yet.

I leave the paint in the cup between coats but I do put a rubber glove over the tip after washing with water and a tooth brush just to keep things clean.

HTH
Todd

[Phil Phelps]

Hi Doug,

I can't argue with Phil regarding the durability issue, but latex can be successfully sprayed with an airbrush or hvlp. Thinning it that much is okay but what you thin it with is what's critical. Instead of water you'll use the cheapest windshield washer fluid you can find. Don't worry about the blue color, it doesn't seem to affect the final color. Since you're using an air gun, you'll need to dial the pressure up to about 45 psi.

Just spray light coats on the vertical surfaces and you shouldn't have issues with drips and runs. I've sprayed kitchen cabinets and miles of trim this way and the results have been fantastic. I did a small desk and dresser in my two daughter's rooms and both of them have held up surprisingly well. They were cheap and we didn't expect them to last but they're still going with no blocking issues yet - I have no explanation for that because I'm expecting it to happen at any moment it just hasn't yet.

I leave the paint in the cup between coats but I do put a rubber glove over the tip after washing with water and a tooth brush just to keep things clean.

HTH
Todd

I double checked and sure enough, it's September, 20th, not April 1st. While I can't attest to the procedure you are using to spray latex, I must wonder, why? What does methyl alcohol have to do with the durability of latex paint? Why would anyone use it on kitchen cabinets? And no, reducing it 30% is never recommended.

[Todd Carpenter]

Hi Phil,

I double checked and sure enough, it's September, 20th, not April 1st.

LOL! I promise, I wouldn't lie, especially when it comes to helping someone out - that's just ugly karma...

While I can't attest to the procedure you are using to spray latex, I must wonder, why?

We used to live in the Detroit area, and many of the homes there almost always had painted cabinets and they were almost always painted with latex. It seemed if you talked to most people, they used latex to paint everything. I just went along with it - who was I to argue with the BORG sales people? I'll admit to being anal enough I couldn't stand how they looked either brushed or rolled and started experimenting with spraying. I started having some success thinning with floetrol and water. Shortly after that, on the Glenn Haegae show, he strongly advised against thinning latex with water - he said it caused the latex to dry too quickly and wouldn't flow out properly - he recommended thinning only with floetrol. Shortly after this, Roy Vaillancourt wrote an article I think in Model Airplane News about he used latex to paint his planes. Roy was using Windshield Washer fluid to thin the latex with fantastic results. Roy supplied the missing link spraying latex successfully.

What does methyl alcohol have to do with the durability of latex paint?

My bet would be nothing. I think the durability I've experienced so far has just been dumb luck. Sorry - didn't mean to imply using windshield washer fluid would increase the durability.

Why would anyone use it on kitchen cabinets?

Like I said above, the area we lived in, that was a fairly common practice. The cabinets I did had been in the house since 1937. I stripped what was easily 10-15 coats of paint down to the bare wood, and primed and repainted. I have to admit, I got lucky when I did it, because I almost didn't follow through with it. I had gotten up early to spray them before I headed to work (4:30am). When I got through spraying, they looked terrible! Orange peel x10! Broken hearted, I decided I'd have to strip them when I got home and headed off to work. When I got home, I couldn't believe how well the paint had flowed out. They hardly had a ripple in them and had the perfect satin/semi-gloss sheen. They came out beautiful. Don't get me wrong, knowing what I know now, latex probably wouldn't be my first choice, although it would be high on the list.

And no, reducing it 30% is never recommended.

Okay I'll concede this point - I've never kept track of the percentages. I just kept going until it flowed through the timer cup like Doug mentioned (I just took his number). IIRC (and I may not) it's been a while since Roy's article, but I think he did thin right around 25-30%.

HTH
Todd

[Phil Phelps]

Todd, I give up. Hell, it just might work!

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'm by no means a finishing specialist. But I literally just finished spraying all of my cabinet doors with latex using my HVLP gun.

It wasn't a cake walk, but I chose latex because it perfectly matched our trim (I used the same exact paint).

Yes, you have to thin it a lot. Yes, it will take more coats. But the finish is pretty good. Better than brushing or rolling, but not as smooth as a nice fine furniture finish. To the untrained eye, the cabinets look fantastic...

If I could do it over, I probably would've used a tinted oil based finish of some kind. I was just worried about color matching.

I think you need to spend a little more time with your floetrol. It is much much better of a thinner than water. Water will make the paint like skim milk, it will take forever to dry, will have a tendancy to run, and the coverage will be terrible (aka, will require lots of coats). I had to sand my cabinets down and start over after spraying with mostly water as the thinner.

There may be little difference between water and floetrol in terms of how it affects viscocity, but it really helps the paint maintain its coverage/color.

I went all the way to 50/50 on my mixture of floetrol/paint. Make sure to strain the paint and test the viscocity (as you seem to be doing already).

I know you're using a wagner sprayer, which is pretty different than an HVLP, but I would think you should be ok. But, I would suggest talking to the guys at the counter at a local paint store (not Home Depot or Lowes- an actual paint shop) ask them about alternatives to latex.

What I don't like about latex is how sticky it is when it is dry. It just doesn't seem as durable as an oil based finish.

Good luck.

[Doug Hobkirk]

I just happened to have the correct color (I call it "New Hampshire Cabin green" in latex when I painted my first piece of furniture. I recently had to get a fresh gallon and I got latex to make cleaning the gun easier. Now that I've cleaned it a few times, I might reconsider using latex. It's pretty easy to clean - dump the paint out of the can on the gun, rinse it out and wipe it clean, add some water (or mineral spirits for oil paint?) and spray it out, remove the tip and brush it clean, and then remove & clean the siphon tube in the can.

And I must admit that the oil paint I used on the one project I've done using oil worked very, very well.

[Tom Veatch]

... It's pretty easy to clean - dump the paint out of the can on the gun, rinse it out and wipe it clean, add some water (or mineral spirits for oil paint?) and spray it out, remove the tip and brush it clean, and then remove & clean the siphon tube in the can..

Yep, that's the way I clean my spray guns, except I usually dump the excess paint back into the paint can instead of dumping it on the gun (but that's not really what you meant was it? ), fill the cup about half full of solvent for whatever the paint was - usually paint thinner - and spray it out through the gun.

Never tried spraying latex, only solvent based paints. Went to the orange borg a couple of days ago to get a quart of oil based enamel. Not a can of oil based in the entire building, not even alkyd. Stocks nothing but latex. Tried the blue borg - only premixed rustoleum, no color matching available. Looks like my days of buying paint at the borgs are a thing of the past.

[Scott Perkins47]

I have a friend whose business focus is making custom window
shutters for large expensive homes. I know he uses latex
in HVLP guns and he sprays pure white satin. I dont know
any of the details except that he insists on water based
for fumes and clean up etc and since he has everything
dialed in right and it is working, he is loving the convenience
of water based. I cannot attest to durability as I doubt
window shutters get abused but the look is acceptable
to his hi dollar paying customers.
I think oil based applications are moving the way of
the gooney birds.

[Phil Phelps]

I have a friend whose business focus is making custom window
shutters for large expensive homes. I know he uses latex
in HVLP guns and he sprays pure white satin. I dont know
any of the details except that he insists on water based
for fumes and clean up etc and since he has everything
dialed in right and it is working, he is loving the convenience
of water based. I cannot attest to durability as I doubt
window shutters get abused but the look is acceptable
to his hi dollar paying customers.
I think oil based applications are moving the way of
the gooney birds.

Scott, if I was making exterior shutters, I'm painting them with exterior, Benjamin Moore Gard, latex. I don't know what HVLP he is using, but I suppose it works for him. I'd use an airless because you don't "water" down the paint to get to perform. This argument for spraying latex paint through a siphon gun or HVLP has really gone way past ridiculous. Pros don't do it. You can get away with it but it is not recommended by the manufacturer. That's why they invented the airless. Alkyd exterior primer is still the best. However, alkyd house paint should be avoided. It's is my opinion, and many pros, that alkyd interior enamel is still the best for interior trim and cabinets. Let's not forget who is behind making alkyd paint extinct.

[Howard Acheson]

I would suggest you contact the finish manufacturer. Some waterborne paints can not be thinned or only thinned very slightly. Water is a carrier, not a thinner. It carries the other chemicals in the finish which only combine after the water has evaporated. If water is added the other chemicals can become too separated and will not come into contact to form the proper finish.

Paint manufacturers have excellent support departments that will be ;more than happy to give you advice.

[Phil Phelps]

I would suggest you contact the finish manufacturer. Some waterborne paints can not be thinned or only thinned very slightly. Water is a carrier, not a thinner. It carries the other chemicals in the finish which only combine after the water has evaporated. If water is added the other chemicals can become too separated and will not come into contact to form the proper finish.

Paint manufacturers have excellent support departments that will be ;more than happy to give you advice.

OMG! Imagine, someone using logic.
Thanks, Howard. I wish more would use the tech support available.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Once long ago and far away I sprayed a kitchen cabinet installation with exterior Benjamin More paint. I was painting my barn with the same paint and a tenent in one of my buildings was raising constant complaints about the kitchen cabinets. So I made a replacement cabinet and painted it with my Craftsman compressed air sprayer.

Came out nice.

I didn't thin it.
It was a craftsman sprayer, I believe the thing would spray gunnite.

[Todd Hoppe]

I have sprayed latex through an Grizzly LVLP gun, and sprayed general finishes waterborne Acrylic. Last night, I sprayed Zinsser BIN primer with the gun. A few suggestions:

- Spraying latex stinks
- Spraying Zinsser BIN primer is worse. It flowed better, but cleanup stinks.
- It was a true pleasure to spray the General Finishes product. It is meant to spray, and the finished product makes me actually look like I know what I'm doing.

I'm all for the economy of latex paint. If you use a product designed for spraying in various types of spray equipment (not just airless) you will never regret it.