Wiring Basement for 220V machines.

[Philip Rodriquez]

No question, there is not enough room to run a shop. The best option is to have a 100 amp sub panel installed. A 50 amp is an option... but a 100 amp is not very much more $$$.

From there, have the electrician run dedicated lines to wherever. Also, be sure to run your lighting on a separate breaker.

[Cliff Holmes]

be sure to run your lighting on a separate breaker.

I'd really recommend splitting your lighting into two banks on two separate breakers. More than once I've had a breaker trip when turning on the lights. Once I had to fumble around in the dark for the panel and flip the breaker back on, only to realize then that I had removed the panel cover the night before. Only by God's grace did I not touch a hot buss.

[Matt Sollars]

is there a good place to get cost information on wire gauges, breaker prices, (what kind of breakers), housings, etc.

thanks.
matt

[Cliff Holmes]

Anything you're likely to need can be gotten from your local Home Depot or Lowes. Just be careful on getting the correct breakers for your box, they're not universal. Even Square-D makes two different (incompatible) lines. Best thing to do is remove a breaker from your panel and take it with you.

[John Coloccia]

The best setup is a subpanel for all outlets/machinery and lighting off s breaker inthe main panel. With this setup, you can kill power to the whole shop with one breaker, but still have lighting in there. I routinely cut power to my shop when I go away for the weekend, or when I have friends with children come over. This way we can have a little fun in uncle John's shop without someone pushing a button and firing up the band saw.

[Darius Ferlas]

is there a good place to get cost information on wire gauges

try this but confirm with your local power authorities. Rules may vary in detail among various localities.

[glenn bradley]

Clint touched on something i was thinking about. can i 'combine' or 'double up' on smaller breakers in order to free up some of the slots on my existing panel?

I'm pretty sure Clint was referring to replacing your existing breakers with double breakers:

temp1.jpg

or half slot breakers:

temp2.jpg

This is NOT combining two existing circuits onto one breaker. This is a unit with two breakers in the space of one or a single breaker that takes half the height of a "standard" breaker.

I am so glad I did not go this route as I quickly out grew the room I might have been able to recover through the use of double breakers and would have spent the money for nothing in the end. This is not a place to cut corners. The labor is the same and the quality of the end result is almost exclusively materials and their installation.

Here's one of your standard breakers:

temp4.jpg

And here's a typical 220v breaker:

temp3.jpg

[Kent A Bathurst]

I had the benefit of plenty of supply to the main panel, so I had an electrician install a 100a breaker in open slots, and run a line to a sub-panel in my basement workshop. Plenty of slots to work with from there.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, home shops don't require many branch circuits.

I have the following;

- (1) 15A 120 v circuit for lighting, plus one battery powered emergency light fed from that circuit

-(1) 15 ampere 240 volt circuit for all my 240 V machines (most are 3 HP, one is 4 HP), as well as running all the 120V receptacles in the shop. This is set up as a multi-wire branch circuit and I have GFCI receptacles where required.

- (1) 15 ampere 240 volt circuit for a 1.5 HP Oneida cyclone

That's it, 3 breakers in total for a shop.

My air compressor is in the garage, so it doesn't run from the shop wiring.

There is a tendancy to over design home shops, if all you'll ever run at one time is one machine, a dust collector, and lighting, that's all you need to design for.

Regrads, Rod.

[Matt Sollars]

thanks Rod, that's actually pretty helpful. It's nice to see exactly what people are using.

Amp Breaker......running this......

amp breaker.......running this.....

i like that response. paints an easy picture. what gauge wire and type of wire do i need to run. any links to read up on these wires would be appreciated.

thanks guys.

matt

ps. Rod, does this mean that you have one 220v plug that you move from machine to machine when using them?

[Rod Sheridan]

thanks Rod, that's actually pretty helpful. It's nice to see exactly what people are using.

Amp Breaker......running this......

amp breaker.......running this.....

i like that response. paints an easy picture. what gauge wire and type of wire do i need to run. any links to read up on these wires would be appreciated.

thanks guys.

matt

ps. Rod, does this mean that you have one 220v plug that you move from machine to machine when using them?

Hi Matt, the circuit sizing depends upon your machines, I listed motor HP, however that's a completely misleading number.

My 3 HP machines have premium efficiency, high power factor motors, they're 12.3 amperes, I've seen low quality 3 HP motors that are as high as 17 amperes.

I have my outlets in 4" square boxes at intervals around the room. Each box contains a duplex 240V 15A receptacle, and a duplex 120V 15A receptacle wired as a split circuit. (esentially two 15A single receptacles).

These are fed from a 2 pole 15A breaker. If I was going to do it again, I might go with a 2 pole 20 Ampere breaker, #12 AWG wire, and 20A 240V recpetacles and 20 A T slot 120V receptacles.

All wiring is in 1/2" EMT.

Where required, install GFCI receptacles instead of standard receptacles.

The cyclone doesn't have a receptacle, a piece of EMT goes from the panel to the starter, and a piece of flex goes from the starter to the cyclone motor.

The push button station for the cyclone is connected by EMT to the starter.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. My jointer planer has a 4 HP motor, with branch circuit protection specified as not to exceed 16 amperes.

[Tom Veatch]

Clint touched on something i was thinking about. can i 'combine' or 'double up' on smaller breakers in order to free up some of the slots on my existing panel?
if i can, does it just mean.....

...when i blow a breaker and lose the kitchen lights....NOW i'll lose the kitchen AND the living room.....

assuming i combine the kitchen and living room breakers.

again, i'll be hiring somebody, just want to be more knowledgable myself.

thanks guys,

matt

I think what is being recommended is to remove two of the "full height" single pole breakers and replace them with one pair of "half height" breakers with the same amperage rating as the removed breakers. That lets you put two breakers in one panel slot and effectively frees up one slot. It doesn't combine two existing circuits into a single circuit which, in general, would be a bad idea.

Replacing some to the full height breakers with pairs of half height breakers wouldn't combine any of the existing circuits. Existing circuits which are on separate breakers would continue to be on separate breakers. And, if you were judicious in your selection of breakers to replace, you wouldn't affect the load balance between the two legs of the service - which may or may not be worthy of consideration.

[Rollie Meyers]

I think what is being recommended is to remove two of the "full height" single pole breakers and replace them with one pair of "half height" breakers with the same amperage rating as the removed breakers. That lets you put two breakers in one panel slot and effectively frees up one slot. It doesn't combine two existing circuits into a single circuit which, in general, would be a bad idea.

Replacing some to the full height breakers with pairs of half height breakers wouldn't combine any of the existing circuits. Existing circuits which are on separate breakers would continue to be on separate breakers. And, if you were judicious in your selection of breakers to replace, you wouldn't affect the load balance between the two legs of the service - which may or may not be worthy of consideration.

You are allowed to add twin breakers only if the panel is rated to accept them, the panel will be marked on the label as to the maximun number of circuit breakers that may be installed in it, also one should use the same make of breaker as the panel unless you have paperwork from the manufacturer stating the breaker has been tested and has been UL classified (not UL listed) to be used in that make of panel.

[Steven DeMars]

Clint touched on something i was thinking about. can i 'combine' or 'double up' on smaller breakers in order to free up some of the slots on my existing panel?
if i can, does it just mean.....

...when i blow a breaker and lose the kitchen lights....NOW i'll lose the kitchen AND the living room.....

assuming i combine the kitchen and living room breakers.

again, i'll be hiring somebody, just want to be more knowledgable myself.

thanks guys,

matt

He means use 1/2 space breakers . . . they are physically smaller with the same rating . .

Steve

[Art Mulder]

only to realize then that I had removed the panel cover the night before. Only by God's grace did I not touch a hot buss.

And I bet you've never ever done that again!?
(leave a hot panel open, that is)

This sort of situation (and the fact I have 4 young kids) is why I've really tried to ingrain the habit that whenever I leave the shop for the day I make sure the TS blade is cranked down below the table, and the power to the TS (IMHO my most dangerous tool there) is turned off.

(I have the TS on a switched outlet with a small neon bulb, so I can see from across the room if there is power to the TS or not.)

Hi, home shops don't require many branch circuits.
....

That's it, 3 breakers in total for a shop.

Rod, that is very interesting. Thanks for posting this. I agree that there is a huge tendency of the forums to overbuild with things like this.

One question -- do you not have an air cleaner in the shop? I often have that running when I'm in there. (Maybe if I had overhead DC on my TS I wouldn't need it as much)

But even so, splitting out the 120 outlets would just mean 4 circuits instead of 3.

...art