A Plane Question

[Dan Andrews]

Outside of a saw and chisel, I have no way of making dados with hand tools. There is currently an opportunity for me to bid on a Stanley 3/8" dado plane #39. There is also a Millers Falls #67 Router to be sold soon.

What are the pros and cons of each tool? How do they differ in purpose?
Does the 3/8" designation of the dado plane mean that it can make 3/8" dadoes only?

What is a fillester plane?

I just bought a Stanley No. 78 rabbet plane. It has a second place to mount the iron and cap right up at the front of the plane. Is this used to make rabbets with a blind stop?

[Robert Rozaieski]

Dan,
Here's my take on your questions. I'm sure you will get other opinions as well.

There is currently an opportunity for me to bid on a Stanley 3/8" dado plane #39. There is also a Millers Falls #67 Router to be sold soon.

What are the pros and cons of each tool?
How do they differ in purpose?

A dado plane makes a fixed width dado. It also has a scoring iron, or in the case of the Stanley version you mention, two small knickers, that score the sides of the dado as it is cut. It also has a skewed iron for making clean cuts across the grain. In my opinion, there is no better hand tool for making a dado than a dado plane. They are hands down the easiest, fastest and cleanest way to do it by hand. However, you do need one sized for the stock you are using, or, you need to size the stock to the dado. With these planes, wooden ones are best. The metal dado planes have no real good way to grip them.

Router planes are more for leveling the bottom of a dado, groove or rabbet. You can use the router plane to make a dado, but only after you have either knifed the sides of the dado, and continue to do so as you remove material, or saw the sides of the dado. The benefit of this is that you can make a dado any width wider than the size of the iron with a router plane.

Does the 3/8" designation of the dado plane mean that it can make 3/8" dadoes only?

Yes.

What is a fillester plane?

A fillester plane is a fenced plane for making rabbets. Most planes are moving fillesters, meaning they have an adjustable fence for making rabbets of different widths. There are usually made of wood. There was also once a wooden plane made called a standing fillester. These were fixed fence planes intended for making rabbets of fixed widths. Typically, the irons in fillester planes was only flush to one side of the plane.

Most modern rabbet planes like the LV offeings and the Stanleys (#78 is one) have the iron flush to both sides of the plane. The theory is that this allows them to be used without the fence as an unfenced rabbet plane.

Again, I think the wooden ones are more comfortable to use in these planes.

I just bought a Stanley No. 78 rabbet plane. It has a second place to mount the iron and cap right up at the front of the plane. Is this used to make rabbets with a blind stop?

I suppose you could try but it won't likely work. Honestly, I'm not sure many people, if anyone, actually uses that mounting location. It was one of those good ideas on paper but in use not very functional kind of thing. It was intended to be able to be used as a bullnose plane for planing close to an inside corner. However, because the iron doesn't come all the way to the front, you still need to clean up the corners with a chisel. It's really not all that useful of an idea as the plane is too long for most bullnose work and the handle gets in the way when you are trying to plane close to an inside corner. It makes an ok rabbet plane though.

[Michael Faurot]

What are the pros and cons of each tool? How do they differ in purpose? Does the 3/8" designation of the dado plane mean that it can make 3/8" dadoes only?

I do not (currently) own any of the dado planes. But the general idea is there's a specific plane to make a certain width dado. So if you only have a 3/8" plane, that's the only width dado you can make.

The router plane, doesn't really make the dado itself, but comes in behind other tools (saw, chisel, etc.) and then cleans up the dado and makes it a uniform depth.

What is a fillester plane?

As I understand it, a rabbett plane with a fence.

[Jim Koepke]

Others have answered your questions.

Mine will be a suggestion. I recently started cutting dados using chisels. A dado is pretty much just a mortise. A dado plane has limitations when cutting stopped dados.

For cutting long through dados or rabbets with a plane, a Stanley 45 is pretty much my go to plane. Others prefer different similar plane models.

It is surprising how fast a dado can be cut using chisels.

Follow up with a router plane to clean up the bottom.

jim

[Brian Kent]

I appreciate this question. I am about to make a triple frame for my sister's 3 panes of stained glass. It will be like a very simple frame and panel construction with the glass being the panels. I can easily use a table saw or router bit, but wouldn't it be fun with hand tools?

(Alas, I lack a router plane, dado plane, etc. I do have a chisel. Hence, I am interested in everyone's answers.)

[David Keller NC]

Dan - The smaller sizes of the Stanley dado planes are not common. And they're the most useful for today's cabinet makers. As a result, they usually go for relatively high prices. I also think that wooden dado planes are a superior tool for this job, but do not buy one of these off of e-bay. Because the escapement on wooden dado planes are completely cut through, they are often warped (sometimes badly).

If the warp's not too bad, the plane can be made to work by shaving off wood, but that leaves a good portion of the blade unsupported and allows the bed of the plane to wander in the cut. It's better, IMO, to buy this plane from a trustworthy dealer or at a MWTCA event where you can hold the plane in your hand and examine it closely.

[Dan Andrews]

Thanks for all of the valuable information guys. I find the most time consuming step in making hand cut dadoes is in the bottom cleanup. I don't do enough woodworking to buy a dado plane for each width dado. Therefore I will buy a router plane. I used my new old Stanley 78 for the first time this afternoon. It sure works good in pine. I'll have to try in on hardwood soon. The Iron has a slightly convex curve to the cutting edge. Is this proper, or should it be ground straight when I get ready to sharpen it?

[Jim Koepke]

The Iron has a slightly convex curve to the cutting edge. Is this proper, or should it be ground straight when I get ready to sharpen it?

This may be a matter of opinion. My opinion, which is subject to change, is to grind them straight.

If your opinion is different, then my opinion doesn't matter.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

I appreciate this question. I am about to make a triple frame for my sister's 3 panes of stained glass. It will be like a very simple frame and panel construction with the glass being the panels. I can easily use a table saw or router bit, but wouldn't it be fun with hand tools?

(Alas, I lack a router plane, dado plane, etc. I do have a chisel. Hence, I am interested in everyone's answers.)

Do you have a rabbet plane? This could be done with rabbets and then held in with moulding.

jim

[Jon Toebbe]

For cutting long through dados or rabbets with a plane, a Stanley 45 is pretty much my go to plane.

+1

I recently snagged a complete Montgomery Wards 45 (made, I am told, by Stanley and rebadged) in great condition, just in time to make the "dovetails or rabbet and cut nails" decision for me for my tool chest project that I'm picking slowly away at.

It worked beautifully cutting rabbets and grooves with the grain in some scrap pine, and did a very respectable job on the cross-grain rabbets. I tore out the first piece pretty awfully, then got smart and clamped a backer board to prevent blowout. Fortunately the blowout was one big chunk, so I glued in back in place -- a cheap lesson, one of the main goals of this project!

If you get the chance, try to snag a Stanley 46 (with a full/mostly-full set of cutters). It's a 45 with skewed blades, and is supposed to be much cleaner on cross-grain work.

Combo-planes are a bit fussy to setup, but they really work well once you get the hang of it!

[Dave Matson]

The front blade mount can easily be used to make stopped dados so long as you remove the bit of the material at the end of the dado to accommodate the nose piece on the #78 (or whatever flavor you have) I have done this using a forstner bit in a drill press (for shame!) but one could easily do it with chisel and/or router plane. Just be careful to use a sharp blade and not get the plane going too fast or it can chip off the bit of wood you are trying to save.

[Mark Stutz]

+1





If you get the chance, try to snag a Stanley 46 (with a full/mostly-full set of cutters). It's a 45 with skewed blades, and is supposed to be much cleaner on cross-grain work.

Combo-planes are a bit fussy to setup, but they really work well once you get the hang of it!

The 46 does work well cross grain, as it was supposed to, but to find one with a full set of cutters will really set you back, and you may look for a long time unless you go to a tool auction. But you don't need a full set of cutters, and the ones you need are available from St. James Bay, unless you are using it to make dadoes.

Mark

[Bill Houghton]

I just bought a Stanley No. 78 rabbet plane. It has a second place to mount the iron and cap right up at the front of the plane. Is this used to make rabbets with a blind stop?

I'm going to differ from Robert Rozaieski. While you do have to do a little cleanup at the end of a blind rabbet, the front blade location can be useful. Plane a little, clean up the last 1/2 inch with a chisel, plane some more; more efficient, once you get your rhythm going, than doing it all with a chisel.

Many bullnose rabbet planes can be set up as chisel planes, which seems cool at first, as it seems like you should then be able to plane right to the end of a blind rabbet. Two issues: (a) you have to "break" the end grain of the rabbet anyway by striking down with a chisel; otherwise, you just fold up chips at the end of the rabbet, and (b) at least in my hands, a chisel plane dives like a duck into the grain; that little bit of sole in front of the mouth of a bullnose plane prevents diving.

[Jim Koepke]

(b) at least in my hands, a chisel plane dives like a duck into the grain; that little bit of sole in front of the mouth of a bullnose plane prevents diving.

You are not the only one. I find my bevel up block planes do this all the time if the mouth is wide open against the grain.

jim

[Dan Andrews]

Rabbet and Dado plane 101. Thanks for all the info. Plane use has got to be my weakest woodworking area. The kind of info. you are giving me here is exactly the kind of stuff I need to know. Even when all of you are not in complete agreement with each other, the discussion gives me food for thought and techinqes to try. What a GREAT FORUM!