Overhhead Teak/Steel Garage Door Help

[Steven Golick]

I have a 16'*7' 4 panel overhead gargage door on my house which I am replacing. I would like to do a steel insulated door and dress the exterior in burmese teak (4/4 resawed to just under 1/2" dressed both sides). From a design perspective, the teak will be in random lengths, (in various widths to make up panels of 21" witdth), ship lapped on all 4 sides. Two methods have been suggested to me to attach the teak to the steel door:

1. Glue exterior grade plywood to the steel door, and then glue the teak to the door.
2. Mechanically fasten horizontal strips of plywood to each panel (like furring strips)(using bolts through the strips and metal garage door) and then glue the teak onto the furring strips (with brads holding until the glue dries).

I have a few questions.
1. Has anyone done this before, and can they suggest any techniques and longevity?
2. It seems to me that gluing the teak to the plywood does not allow for any wood movement and is problematic. The furring strips would allow for air movement and some wood movement (almost like a wood floor). The door will be exposed to serious seasonal weather swings (I live in Toronto). Any thoughts as to best construction method (or other)?
3. Any suggestions as to glue/epoxy etc?

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions/input/advice.

Steven

[Doug Shepard]

No I haven't done this, but it sounds like it's going to weight a TON. Why not go ahead and glue the teak to ply but with the teak resawed at 1/16" thick? That would make it behave more like veneer and not have the big movement concerns plus keep the weight down too.

[Dave Wagner]

Either way, make sure you re-adjust (or install new) springs for the extra added weight, otherwise you will not be able to open the door manually and/or burn out your opener if so equipped.

[Steven Golick]

Thanks for the replies.

I am planning on commercial hardware and motor. You are right. It will weigh a lot. The door manufacturer is spec'ing the hardware and motor.

As to resawing to thinner material, I am concerned about de-lamination. Is this a real concern?

Steven

[Lee Schierer]

What about using long pop rivets or flat head sheet metal screws in counter bored holes in the teak and cover the rivets with wood plugs. The rivets would attach directly into the skin of the door.

[Steven Golick]

Thanks Lee. That is a possibility. However, I was trying to avoid seeing the fasteners (or plugs for dowels), so I was going to be fastening through the tails in the ship laps (which will be covered by the other side of the ship lap), and then using a brad (small gauge) just to hold until the glue drys. I will consider your suggestion.

Any thoughts on whether gluing to the plywood or to furring strips is better from a wood movement/longevity perspective?

Steven

[Jamie Buxton]

A couple thoughts...

* Teak is infamous for being difficult to glue. The waxiness which makes it so weather resistant also makes it difficult to glue well. The best advice I've seen is to machine it to get a fresh face, and glue it soon. I'd use epoxy to bond wood to steel, especially in a spot which is likely to get wet.

* To deal with wood movement, I'd be inclined to use frame-and-panel construction. The panels float within the frame, so they can expand and contract as they wish. I'd probably use mechanical fastening of the frame to the underlying garage door, with plugs to cover the screw heads. Maybe I'd use a contrasting wood for the plugs. I'd also make sure that there are drain paths so if water does get behind the wood it can drain out rather than getting trapped to rot the wood and rust the steel.

[Doug Shepard]

One other thought comes to mind. No glue. No screws through the garage door. But couterbore the backside of the teak panels and use
http://kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=110
I have no idea how many of these you'd need to hold the teak panels on, but since the door is steel you'd get good pull against the door.
I've got some holding up 6" PVC downtubes for my DC ducting and they work well.

[Rob Fisher]

I am planning on commercial hardware and motor. You are right. It will weigh a lot. The door manufacturer is spec'ing the hardware and motor.

The door opener (motor) only actually opens the door for the first few inches, after that the springs take the weight and the opener just controls the speed of the opening. That said, typically a 1/2" hp opener will handle any residential door up to about 16'. In your case the extra weight of whatever wood cladding you add to the door may require you to bump up to a 3/4 hp opener, which should be more than enough.

The door springs are size according to the weight of the door, so you may need to tell the manufacturer how much weight you are adding to the door so they can size them accordingly.

Just my thoughts,
Rob

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks Lee. That is a possibility. However, I was trying to avoid seeing the fasteners (or plugs for dowels), so I was going to be fastening through the tails in the ship laps (which will be covered by the other side of the ship lap), and then using a brad (small gauge) just to hold until the glue drys. I will consider your suggestion.

Any thoughts on whether gluing to the plywood or to furring strips is better from a wood movement/longevity perspective?

Steven

Okay how about this one. Cut a dovetail groove about 1/4" deep on the back side of the teak along the length of your pieces. Make a matching dovetail key strip and attach the key to the door with flat head screws. Slide the teak strips over the key strips to hold it to the door.

[Steven Golick]

Lee/Jamie/Doug/Dave/Rob/Jamie - you guys are great! Loved the input and suggestions.

I can't use frame and panel, as it doesn't fit the style, although that would probably be a first choice. Although the magnets are an innovative solution, I will probably pass on that too. I think I will scrap the idea of glue. I am concerned with the cross grain movement.

Perhaps its best to go for screws with plugs. Given narrow strips (between 3" and 6"), I may use one screw every 12", but only one per board at each furring strip (which would allow for movement in the ship lapped joints).

Lee's suggestion about a dovetail groove withe screws sliding in the dovetail is very innovative. I might try a mock up of that, just for fun. I am not sure my material will be thick enough (probably only at 1/2" or 5/8" at best) to do it and be stable.

Rob - thanks for the input re weight and springs. I am sure the steel door manufacturer will figure it out one way or another.

Thank you all for the great suggestions and input.

Steven

[Nicholas Bukky]

Hey Steven,
Is there any way you could drill through the door and run long screws through the door and into the back of each board along with the counter sunk screws through the lip on the front? Add a dab of construction adhesive and they would stay for a long time.

Nick

[Steven Golick]

Thanks - that too is an interesting suggestion.

Well, to close the loop.... after lots of thought, and lots of ideas from many different sources including all the SMC suggestions, I have come to the conclusion that a steel insulated door laminated with teak is too risky, and has too high a maintenance factor for the Canadian winters. I have decided instead to go for an pre-engineered insulated copper door (which will match other aspects of the house).

While I am a bit disappointed that the garage door will be copper instead of wood, on the other hand, there is no maintenance (oiling every year etc), no worries about wood movement, no worries about snow piled up against the door and rotting the wood etc.

There is a bit of a savings in total cost (about 20%) which doesn't hurt, but was not the motivating factor.

Thanks to all for the valuable contributions. It is wonderful that this community exists. I really appreciate it.

Steven