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Thread: What CNC machine would work best?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Jarrard View Post
    Here is the pic of the part I just milled on one of our shop routers.
    here is a link to the you tube video of the part.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxpgtBMe_Tw

    Bryan I had the presets of only milling down .10" in my program you will be able to do this in one pass saving you time. also you can see i held it down with screws, we do this all the time. cut all your holes with one file then the profiles with the other after you add the screws for hold down.
    I hope this helps.

    Joey Jarrard
    I am blown away that you took the time to create the drawing, run it through the CNC, video tape it, and put it on YouTube! That is awesome. Thanks!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve knight View Post
    looking at these parts. I don't see a need for a cnc but to save effort. these parts could be cut on a tablesaw then drilled with a lot of choices how they were done.
    These two examples are the smallest of 70+ different plates. Yes, these are easy to cut on a bandsaw and go through the rest of the processes. However, it's all very time consuming and I should be spending time growing the business rather than maintaining it. But I do appreciate your feedback as it helps me see every side of the equation.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Calhoun, GA
    Posts
    377

    Bryan,

    Just wanted to help. After looking at your drawings and reading about the steps you go through now I just had to show you how easy it is. Total time was around 30 min to draw in acad save as dxf bring over to v-carve set the tooling and cnc. the longest part was uploading the video to youtube.
    the part is supper smooth on the cut edges. I am getting a bit list up for eric I will post in a few.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Calhoun, GA
    Posts
    377

    Tooling for Aluminum cutting

    Eric, Bryan, Jim, Guy

    we use Southeast Tool & Onsrud Bits
    Both are for sell at www.routerbitsandmore.com the SETool is up the Onsrud I am still working on it will be another day or two. But if you need it I can get it.

    * you have to put the intire part number in the search field. The dia like .25" is not part of the part number Im just stating the diameter

    Southeast Tool

    Solid Carbide O-Flute Spirals

    SOU100 - .125"
    SOU120 - .25" what was in the video

    Multi Grind O-Flute - I use this for the harder Aluminum

    SPOU120 - .125"

    Onsrud

    63-725 - .25" I use this when I need to have more speed like when I nest a 4x8 sheet of parts the speed is not a huge jump and will not be noticed on small parts. You may get a extra 10 ipm on a large file this gives us about 15-20 min and the price jump is worth it to me.


    Feeds are 50-75 ipm depending on the grade of aluminum
    Depth is .10" per pass You can go to .125" the speed will decrease a little
    The Coolant we use is a light cutting oil called CRC we use the 3-36 ultra light grade and this can be picked up at most industrial supply chains.

  5. #65
    thanks joey i have printed that and put it in the bit book!!

    bryan, what you also have to remember is that once a file is created it is done.. and no more recreation of the wheel the file is ready on demand for however many you need. whatever cnc you but consider the back up support, i went to the blue company and they definantly have the support and following for the router one would be foolish to not see that, i wanted a more industrial router and i went CAMaster as they also had all that and live online support at the drop of a hat. in 07 i knew nothing of cnc and if it were not for a great support community i still would be lost, within a few weeks of getting my first router i got a job to produce HDU signs for an apartment community (101.203 Garage, pool etc.) i had no clue what hdu was and called bill and joey who helped me write my first files, (video on youtube at mcgrewwoodwork) i did two more complexes within the next two months paid off the first router and bought my second one! now i have a third on the way and have sol the original router for the same i paid for it. it should be pretty obvious why i am all about helping our cnc community grow. should you like to see it live all you need is highspeed internet and my phone number ( 803 518 2074) and you can run my machine from your computer!! this is how we teach online

    this has been fun and i have learned somthing thanks for providing a good lesson in aluminum for us!!

    jim mcgrew

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    portland oregon
    Posts
    1,286
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Cowan View Post
    These two examples are the smallest of 70+ different plates. Yes, these are easy to cut on a bandsaw and go through the rest of the processes. However, it's all very time consuming and I should be spending time growing the business rather than maintaining it. But I do appreciate your feedback as it helps me see every side of the equation.
    the bandsaw was the wrong tool unless you have curved shapes. if you had curves then the cnc would be good. but if the edges are all straight cutting on a well setup tablsaw would be faster then the cnc.
    not saying a cnc is a bad thing but from what I saw you may be able to do it faster for less money. though it will mean you have to do the work.
    I had to cut some belt buckles out of aluminum. when I did the toolpath to see how long it would take (I think about 30 minutes) I decided to do it on the tablesaw. took about 4 minutes to cut the sheet up. I could not even attach the material to my table in that time.
    have you looked into getting the cut on a waterjet? it may cost little more then what your paying for the aluminum now.
    Last edited by Steve knight; 10-09-2009 at 2:20 AM.
    Steve knight
    cnc routing

  7. #67
    it is not something i am proud of but in 07 i hit the tablesaw blade twice in one year with the same thumb, the second time was a direct slice down the middle. now it is numb and i am lucky to have it at all, it changed my hand writting (typing was always bad) this may have some effect on my favor for cnc as in my world and so far so good a bit safer!! now this is not to say i have not almost had a fire or slung a piece of material but at least my fingers are away from the moving tools!!

    steve with an approach like the one you advocate towards aluminum and cnc how do you feel about cutting plastics and other substrates. i will say i have seen you offer help on there substrates (feeds,speeds,bits) on other forums, my goal is not to put you on the spot but i want to see what i am missing about this? i will agree that if i had to cut one to four of a part on a one off situation this could take a bit longer with the initial setup on a cnc but for repetitive work where repeatability and accuraccy are concerned this is a hands down decision on my part.

    www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

    i share a building with the fellow who manufactures the wiffle ball for all walmarts, (in the US can you imagine) he has massive injection molds that have to be constantly maintained and milled new these are always done on cnc mills along with loads of other parts we get to see some pretty cool machine shops here and two of the largest have many mills, plasma cnc and table cnc'c for nesting flat parts.

    kieth outen the owner of this forum came and gave a seminar on using a cnc in small business and signmaking in my shop last weekend at the aspire user group meeting. to any one who has an opportunity to hear him speak on this i would take it, it was one of the most popular topics and is well worth listening to!!

    jim
    Last edited by james mcgrew; 10-09-2009 at 6:07 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve knight View Post
    the bandsaw was the wrong tool unless you have curved shapes. if you had curves then the cnc would be good. but if the edges are all straight cutting on a well setup tablsaw would be faster then the cnc.
    not saying a cnc is a bad thing but from what I saw you may be able to do it faster for less money. though it will mean you have to do the work.
    I had to cut some belt buckles out of aluminum. when I did the toolpath to see how long it would take (I think about 30 minutes) I decided to do it on the tablesaw. took about 4 minutes to cut the sheet up. I could not even attach the material to my table in that time.
    have you looked into getting the cut on a waterjet? it may cost little more then what your paying for the aluminum now.
    Ah, I see. The drawings I posted were the only two with straight edges. The other 68+ plates do have round corners. For those I would cut with the band saw and get as close to the radius as possible. I would then use the rotary sanding disc to round them out as best as I could. Over the years I've become pretty good at it, but knowing there's something out there that can do it better and faster, I'm all ears

    I'm not against manual labor, don't get me wrong, but the quality and repeatability I can expect from a CNC far outweighs me wanting to continue with manual labor. It will also open up more doors for the business, which I'm excited about.

  9. #69
    Jim, Joey, and others,

    In addition to the 70+ plates routed out of flat stock, I will need to work with structural u-channels (1" x 1" x 1/8") and square tubes (3/4" x 3/4" x 1/16"). Attached are for illustration purposes only and were pictures I found on Google but they represent what else I would be working with.

    I currently work with 1 foot sections of each. On the u-channel, I drill 12 holes on one side and continue the drill bit through until it passes the other side. Then on the bottom of the u-channel, I drill 12 more holes. Once drilled, I cut 1" pieces off on the band saw. These are ug-ly. How would I be able to do this on the CAMaser router?

    Same goes for the square tubing. Work with 1 foot sections, drill holes in various locations and then cut smaller pieces off with the band saw.

    With the size of the table I'm looking at, I'd be able to bring in longer work pieces. My question would be how to clamp the pieces down, drill out the holes, and then, most importantly, cut the smaller pieces off with the router?

    This could make or break the idea of buying a router.

    I'm 95% of the way there...5% more and Joey has an order
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #70
    this is where i advocate a saw i have a clamp table i place on my cnc and would machine the holes and such then turn and set a fence on a chop saw we have another with a stop for repeating parts

    there is another 2.5% i am sure joey would throw in a good chopsaw for the balance!!

    jim
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by james mcgrew; 10-09-2009 at 9:14 AM.

  11. #71
    Jim,

    Why don't you think the router would work with the u-channels and sq. tubes?

    Regards,
    Bryan

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State Capital, WI
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Cowan View Post
    Jim, Joey, and others,

    In addition to the 70+ plates routed out of flat stock, I will need to work with structural u-channels (1" x 1" x 1/8") and square tubes (3/4" x 3/4" x 1/16"). Attached are for illustration purposes only and were pictures I found on Google but they represent what else I would be working with.

    I currently work with 1 foot sections of each. On the u-channel, I drill 12 holes on one side and continue the drill bit through until it passes the other side. Then on the bottom of the u-channel, I drill 12 more holes. Once drilled, I cut 1" pieces off on the band saw. These are ug-ly. How would I be able to do this on the CAMaser router?

    Same goes for the square tubing. Work with 1 foot sections, drill holes in various locations and then cut smaller pieces off with the band saw.

    With the size of the table I'm looking at, I'd be able to bring in longer work pieces. My question would be how to clamp the pieces down, drill out the holes, and then, most importantly, cut the smaller pieces off with the router?

    This could make or break the idea of buying a router.

    I'm 95% of the way there...5% more and Joey has an order
    Bryan -

    Would those small structural aluminum shapes be better to be outsourced and just buy 1000 (or whatever number) at a time? Especially if you are always using a 1" piece of square with a 1" piece of channel? I would think that a job shop could churn those out much faster than you could even do yourself on the chopsaw/CNC combination.

    Oh - and I do think that CNC is the way to go

    Jim - would you use that lovely Kapex to cut that aluminum ?
    oops ....1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 - yup all there, whew!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Wright View Post
    Bryan -

    Would those small structural aluminum shapes be better to be outsourced and just buy 1000 (or whatever number) at a time? Especially if you are always using a 1" piece of square with a 1" piece of channel? I would think that a job shop could churn those out much faster than you could even do yourself on the chopsaw/CNC combination.

    Oh - and I do think that CNC is the way to go

    Jim - would you use that lovely Kapex to cut that aluminum ?
    That's what I was thinking Rob. If these two items are the only pieces the CAMaster cannot do, they would be outsourced (who wants some work? )

    Thanks for your input!

  14. #74
    like steve pointed out it is all about holding it downonce it is secure you can do anything i just feel that for the tubes crooscutting the individuals will require a lot of jig clamps and will be faster pre or post sized.

    oh, and no we don't cut metal with the kapex but that surely is another worthy tool!! 1400.00$ a pop for that saw and worth every penny!!

    jim

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by james mcgrew View Post
    like steve pointed out it is all about holding it downonce it is secure you can do anything i just feel that for the tubes crooscutting the individuals will require a lot of jig clamps and will be faster pre or post sized.

    oh, and no we don't cut metal with the kapex but that surely is another worthy tool!! 1400.00$ a pop for that saw and worth every penny!!

    jim
    So if anything, I could drill the holes with the router but then need to find another method of cutting the individual pieces. I absolutely hate the band saw tooth marks that are left behind. Of all that I do, that is the one thing that bothers me the most. I want smooth edges, not rigid blade marks.

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