Rewiring

[mickey cassiba]

I am living in an old(1960) mobile home that i got for a crazy low price. It was built by Timpte, the freight trailer company, and is exceptionally stout.
The two issues I have are the plumbing(iron pipe, near closed up with mineral deposits) and the aluminum wiring. I am going to rewire with copper as well as upgrade the service(currently 60A with two fuses as the main, and 4 15A legs to service the whole house.
BIL the electrician thinks I should remove all the aluminum and pull in the romex. I've pulled my share of wire, and that idea doesn't sound too fun. My idea is to fur the walls with 2x2 studs and attach the romex to the existing paneling( which my wife hates anyway)and cover with the modern thin sheet rock that is used in mobile these days.
My problem is with the overhead wiring for lights and fans. I don't want to lower the ceilings or add much weight to the roof trusses. I'm also not crazy about the track style conduit being sold for that purpose.
Any ideas?

[Scott T Smith]

Re the overhead wiring, typically it has to drop down through the walls at some point - perhaps above the load center? Since you're convering your walls anyway, can you punch a hole through the existing paneling above your load center so that you'll have access to the ceiling wiring, and then use the old wire as a fish tape?

Something else to consider - how is the insulation in the MH? If you pull the paneling off of the walls to run new wiring, you can still add the 2 x 2 studs but also add new insulation between the new studs and old studs, thereby increasing your overall efficiency. Same comment re the ceiling, which would allow you to remove / replace wires at the same time (albeit a little more messy short term living conditions).

[mickey cassiba]

Scott, the insulation is great, old rockwool, and in all the places I've checked never been wet. I'm not really considering removing the old panelling as it adds rigidty to the walls. I will hane to cut holes in it where the new uotlets are located as a handybox is a little deeper than the proposed wall. Fishing the overheads with tho old wires sounds good, if the existing isn't fastened to the trusses. I'll have to cut a few discreet inspection holes in the fiber ceiling material and check that out
Thanks!

[Anthony Scira]

If your doing all this for just cause you do not like aluminium wire, well don't. The wire in the walls are safe. The only danger is in the terminations of the wire. You can not use regular old wire nuts. Even the approved purple ones are not that great and are over priced.

I just did my parents place with alumiConn connector's. Work great and saved a lot of work opening walls and such. We then went over the old paneling with 1/4 inch drywall. Looks real good.

Check it out.

[David G Baker]

I agree with Anthony S. Nothing wrong with aluminum wire if hooked up correctly other than a bunch of bad press and a lot of bad connections.

[mickey cassiba]

Thanks guys, but my problem is not with the aluminum per se. The main issue is that I live in a woefully underpowered house. The appliances, and such that we own will regularly blow fuses(4 for the entire house) unless we are very careful with use. My wife requires medical equipment that must be available instantly, at any time. I have no 220V capability, required for the HVAC system that I intend to install. The fact that the switches and outlets are mounted to the paneling with no box also disturbs me, even though the service has survived for 50+ years. The previous owners were "Winter Texans" who used the place for about 3 months out of the year and had a lifestyle that didn't utilize much power. No AC, junior sized refrigerator, not too mention no electronics beside an ancient television and table top AM radio.
I cannot run my air compressor at all, most of my shop tools are near the load capacity of the single fuse circuits and on and on.
In order to get an upgraded meter base, with the 220 capability, and 200A total service I must comply with current code which strictly prohibits mixed metal wiring, even if it is compliant with national standards such as soldered or compression type couplings.
Some things I have no problem with "cheaping out" but electricity is not one of them!
Sorry if that got a little ranty, but I'm looking for ways to accomplish my goal, rather than getting by.
I apologize in advance if I stepped on anyones toes, but your comments are still appreciated. At least you cared enough to offer your advice, and that counts for a lot. Makes mesure that joining this community was a "good thing"

Mickey

[Anthony Scira]

You can always change out the panel and add new circuits to where you need them to go without tearing apart walls. Using fir strips would be a good idea but the walls may get a little thick around the doors and windows.

What we did with my dads place is add the circuits where needed. Added ceiling fans in all the rooms. Opened the ceiling to securely mount them to the 1x2 joists. Then covered the whole thing with that lightweight 1/4" drywall. Ceiling and walls. Had to change out rings on the boxes to sit flush with all the drywall.

I just respliced all the connections with the AlumiCon connectors and its good to go.

Using the 1/4 drywall worked out great and you don't loose all that space.

[mickey cassiba]

Thanks Anthony! Wasn't planning on tearing out the walls. I'm going to leave the old alum. in there. But I have to abide by local wiring code to get my new meter. While I can(and have) use the AlumiCons at work, they are strictly forbidden in the residential section of the codes. For whatever reason it is, I cannot do it.
The extension rings won't work, there is nothing to attach them to. The swirtches anf fixtures are attached dirictl to the finish surface with no box. Strange, but true.
Definitely going with the 1/4" wallboard, didn't know it was still available til I googled it, doors & windows will only be a problem for a while, as they will be replaced when money becomes available. I'm going to bring the wall thickness up to standard "House" thickness and put in "real" doors and windows. my main problem now is getting the o/h wiring out to the middle where the lights and fans live.
After poking around in the cieling , I've found that fishing the new wire with the old is not an option. The wires are(as they should be) fastened to the joists. Looks like I'm going to have about 600 sf of celotex to get rid of, but what the hey!
The entire project will probably take a couple of years, but when we bought this place, we decided that barring fire or flood, this would be our last place, so I've plenty of time to do it, and do it right.
Also adding a twelve foot extension down the length of one side, 20' of which is earmarked for WOODSHOP!!! My first real shop space ever.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Hi Mickey,
Sounds like an ambitious project regardless of how long you space it out. You're comment about a 12 ' addition on the side makes me think of what we do out here (NM) a lot.
You can almost always use more roof insulation, for Texas it might be mostly to keep cooler in the heat, but here we value it for keeping warm in winter and cooler in summer. Adding on along side the MH usually works out well, and most of the time it's worth adding on a new low pitch roof. At this time you could add on 1/2 of a new roof and just run the wires directly up to the space between the new roof and the old one.. You can then just punch a hole down to the new or existing overhead light fixtures. Later when you add on, you'll have the ridge already built and can just finish the roof. As a bonus, a new roof and insulation should qualify in most areas for both federal and state energy conservation tax credits. I know I'd rather build a roof then replace a ceiling anyday!

[mickey cassiba]

Hi Mickey,
Sounds like an ambitious project regardless of how long you space it out. You're comment about a 12 ' addition on the side makes me think of what we do out here (NM) a lot.
You can almost always use more roof insulation, for Texas it might be mostly to keep cooler in the heat, but here we value it for keeping warm in winter and cooler in summer. Adding on along side the MH usually works out well, and most of the time it's worth adding on a new low pitch roof. At this time you could add on 1/2 of a new roof and just run the wires directly up to the space between the new roof and the old one.. You can then just punch a hole down to the new or existing overhead light fixtures. Later when you add on, you'll have the ridge already built and can just finish the roof. As a bonus, a new roof and insulation should qualify in most areas for both federal and state energy conservation tax credits. I know I'd rather build a roof then replace a ceiling anyday!

Hey Bill!
I'm thinking along those lines as well. But the addition is scheduled for much later in the process(as much as I want the shop space now).
Problem being, even my circular saw dims the lights on my existing service, I'm afraid to do full scale construction at this point would require a generator quite a bit larger than the one I keep now for wife's medical apparatus.
It's kind of a chicken vs. egg thing there.
I've done a fair amount of re-modeling, but I swear this is the head-scratchinist project I've ever fooled with.
Gotta get this one off the drawing board and onto the ground.
To all other readers: keep the ideas coming...please!!!
Winter's coming and I'd like to get the HVAC in 'fore it does. It doesn't get real cold here, but after 8 monthes of 90+ temps 40's are quite brisk. Right now I've got a gas forced air furnace, also 1960 vintage, and when it kicks on, it sounds like a helicopter taking off in the next room!

[Rollie Meyers]

Do you have a code section to cite RE: no connectors? There is a lot of "urban legend" codes that people say are there,"It's code that you can't do XXXX but don't have copy with me" thing...

One thing for example is that wire nuts are prohibited in panels, there is no such NEC rule.

[David G Baker]

Rollie M,
The electricians that installed my 200 amp service had to move one of my indoor panels. Several of the wires were not long enough to reach the breakers after the move so they used wire nuts and added enough wire to reach the breaker. I questioned them on the wire nuts and their answer was that the wire nuts have to be inside of an enclosure that is code compliant. I keep an older code book around for reference or I visit an Internet site that has the code information.

[mickey cassiba]

Truth told, I have not read the codes, got my info from the electrician that I use at the plant for major installations that I don't feel comfortable/am not qualified for. I'll definitely look up the cited section, but he's never steered me wrong yet. And as it is he who will be signing off on my work at the house, I kinda got to go with what he says. Or find someone else to sign off.
I have done a lot of minor, and some major electrical work, but have never had the time to do the sit-down class time for certification.
Rollie, what he told me was not"no connectors" it was "no mixed metal" ie; copper and aluminum, steel and copper, etc.

[mickey cassiba]

Forgot to add that he has been a licensed electrical contractor in this county and state for 35 years. that carries a little weight with me.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

You could still run the wiring for the ceiling over the existing roof--just put the wires in conduits for now. It's not ideal since you have to seal the penetrations, but then I had to put my hvac ducting on my NM flat roof and we've managed to get it sealed.