Why not Delta?

[John Pratt]

I have seen numerous threads about the purchase of new tools and they always seem to be about PM, Griz, or other brands. I rarely see threads about the purchase of NEW Delta products. Why? Is it the price point? Quality? Service? Just wondering. I have always been a fan of Delta tools (I have several) and wondered why I don't see more opinion about their tools here other than older refurbished models.

[Rod Sheridan]

John, I owned a couple of pieces of equipment from the long ago era when they were made in the USA.

Unless I am mistaken, their products are now made in Taiwan or China.

I simply refuse to buy machinery from countries that don't have equivalent or better environmental, labour and social programs compared to Canadian programs, unless an equivalent or better product isn't available.

That leaves me with Canadian (General) or European (Felder, Hammer, MiniMax) equipment, which isn't a bad thing.

The present Delts equipment is in no way equivalent to the above manufacturers.

Regards, Rod.

[John Pratt]

I thought the newest TS was built here in the US. I have heard there was a push by Delta to make more of thier other products in the US as well. Now I know some of the smaller parts are manufatured elsewhere but I can't think of any machine (large machine not accessories) or company that has every part manufatured in the US or Canada (which is really foriegn also (no offense to the Canucks out there)). There are "American" cars that are more foriegn than the "foriegn" cars sold in the US. I think the same is true for a lot of Woodworking machinery.

Not trying to stir up a long debate on trade laws and such. Just wondering why I don't hear more about Delta. I personnaly have had no issues with service or quality. Just thought maybe others have.

[David Christopher]

John, their new midi lathe and new unisaw are the cats meow

[Rick Fisher]

Delta fell from favor when Black and Decker bought them out..

They import Chinese and Taiwanese machinery and try to sell the name..
Some of there tools are very nice, but rarely the best value..

[mickey cassiba]

Very few of the New Delta Models are made in North America, and most of them have Asian parts as well. The RAS's as well as the Gang borer are still produced here.

[johnny means]

John, I owned a couple of pieces of equipment from the long ago era when they were made in the USA.

I simply refuse to buy machinery from countries that don't have equivalent or better environmental, labour and social programs compared to Canadian programs, unless an equivalent or better product isn't available.



Regards, Rod.

You do realize that your American equipment, made in a "long ago era", was manufactured in similar conditions to those you seem to frown upon now. Funny how we take such a sophomoric view of how developing economies do business. We are not that far removed from our own sweatshop era. We enjoy the fruits of the nightmare conditions that allowed our economies to become world leaders, then look upon other societies that follow our model with disdain.

[Kevin Groenke]

John,

Others can argue all they want but IMO the quality of Delta's products and customer service have been on a rather long decline since the 80's (or before). For whatever reason, I think this decline parallels that of American auto manufacturing rather closely.

Delta had long had the benefit of being able to rest on it's reputation, at this point they're reputation usually fades to anybody making a knowledgeable apples-to-apples comparison to other manufacturers products. They were long seen as a "premium" brand (though they were really rarely the best at anything). Today much of their equipment is mediocre but still carries a premium price. Value and excellence seems like recurring themes in equipment discussions here at the creek. I'd guess Delta doesn't come up in many comparisons/recommendations/discussions because they often don't offer particularly valuable or excellent options.

In recent memory Delta has produced a number of pieces of equipment which have simply been poorly designed and/or executed, I can think of a couple that were publicly announced at big trade shows and simply never made it to the showroom floor.

Among other things that have turned me off to Delta is the exorbitant pricing of their repair parts: they often use proprietary parts (motors in particular) thus preventing replacement with off-the-shelf parts (such as standard NEMA frame motors).

Several manufacturers have quality products produced in Asia, so the outsourcing of manufacturing is simply not a valid excuse - those factories do make what they're hired to make after all. Rod's locally produced standards are commendable and enviable, but obviously many are going to choose otherwise.

Delta will have to make MAJOR changes to their product line and business model if it's to restore it's reputation with me and I'm sure many others like me.

-kg

[Kent A Bathurst]

Whoooaa, there fellas - One thing I really like about SMC is that the group's expertise stays focused on the issue at hand, without veering into political subplots and retorts as some other sites do too often. Looks like a good opportunity to "take it outside" to Off-Topic. I'll be happy to argue my side in that forum.

[Tony Bilello]

I had been out of woodworking for a long while and recently got back into it. I heard about Delta going down hill and Jet being the cat's meow. Well, after purchasing some new equipment, I totally disagree. My new Delta Contractors Saw is just as good as my old one was. My new Jet Lathe was replaced with a Delta Lathe. I feel that the Delta is still far superior to Jet and Grizzly.
I wonder how many anti-Delta people out there have used and made actual comparisons or are just repeating the Chinese/Black and Decker story they read about. Some of these type of replies are almost word for word. It took me a while and loss of some money to figure that out.
The country of origin has nothing to do with quality. It's all about the Manufacturers specs and the manufacturers quality control. Just because 2 'exact' looking products come out of the same factory does NOT make it the same product. Anyone who has ever been involved in manufacturing can tell you that.

[Cary Falk]

My shop is comprised of Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Shop Fox, and Steel City. I have had many Delta tools in the past. What I have left is a 22-580 lunchbox planer( my 1970 Unisaw techincally doesn't count). I have never had a problem with customer service. The last time I had to use it was a bout 3 years ago. The Delta tools I have replaced were a contractor saw(great), and a 14" Band saw(terrible vibration). I upgraded to a bigger tool in both cases. I shop for value. I look at available features vs price. On my recent purchases, Delta didn't have the features I was looking for and I think they are holding on to their pricing like they are still the gold standard. I find replacement parts are also pretty high. I find their tools to be on par, fit and finish wise, with the other brands in my shop. There for a while they were resting on their reputation and cheeping their line. The new drill presses and Unisaw look like they are trying to turn around. I hope they do because I like them in general. I have 2 large purchases left but the business will likely go to Grizzly. They have the best value and features. I am real happy with the Grizzly tools I currently have.

[John Pratt]

As stated I don't want to get into a discussion of foriegn labor practices. I am just wondering why there are so few discussions related to Delta large machinery. I haven't really heard to many say they have bad quality, but some relate the price point is too high. At what point is the line drawn between quality vs. price. Personnally I start my search for a new machine at the "cost be damned" end and work down from there (keep in mind I am talking about the home shop, not a production type shop with 14" TS costing 25K). keeping price out of the equation, is not Delta on the same level as Griz, PM, Jet, etc..

After reading this I realize I am starting to sound like a Delta survey, but I assure you I am in no way affiliated with them. However, I do own several tools made from them and might get more, but I never see discussion related to their newest machinery. I stated in a different thread that I just got the new Unisaw but The only real TS threads I see are SS, PM, or Griz. I can't give an honest review of the new Unisaw yet, I don't have the new shop organized enough to run it through its paces. The only Delta tool I have been disappointed in was the Bench-top Mortiser. All others have worked as advertised.

[Neal Clayton]

I have seen numerous threads about the purchase of new tools and they always seem to be about PM, Griz, or other brands. I rarely see threads about the purchase of NEW Delta products. Why? Is it the price point? Quality? Service? Just wondering. I have always been a fan of Delta tools (I have several) and wondered why I don't see more opinion about their tools here other than older refurbished models.

because they price gouge on parts. and the more years go by, the shorter the lifespan of those newer parts.

[Jeff Duncan]

I have a fair amount of equipment in my shop coming from all over the globe. I have several Delta's including 2 older Unisaws, an 02' - 20" bandsaw, an 02' 1 hp power feeder, an early 80's DJ-20, and had until about a year ago an 02' HD shaper. My feeling is the heavy duty machines I own or have owned, are well made solid equipment. There are definitely small things (like plastic knobs) that they've cut costs and went cheaper on. But for the most part the equipment is still reliable for day to day use. While the older equipment was sometimes better made, I think it gets a bit overblown on these forums. I think you get what you pay for and having owned several Grizzly machines over the years I have no dillusion that they're the same machine with different paint. That's not to say they can't be a great value for the money for some guys, but they're not the same machine any more than a Ryobi cordless drill is the same as a Makita just b/c they look similar.
Light duty Delta equipment is a different story and I really don't buy any machines out of the box stores so I won't comment on that end of the line.

Now Powermatic I feel has really made a concentrated effort to remain in the game. They've introduced new equipment like line boring machines, drum sanders, and dovetail machines meant to attract small shops. The machines are imported, but I find them well made for the money. Not sure about there smaller stuff either as I've heard the new 6"-8" jointers are prone to problems.

At the end of the day I think you have to go on a machine by machine basis. I would never limit myself to 1 or 2 manufacturers, although there are several I'd avoid. I also don't put too much into where they are made, I've driven Ford trucks made in Canada, Chevy's made in Mexico, and Toyota's made in the US... all with parts sourced from around the globe. The computer I'm typing this on is full of parts made elsewhere, as are all the other computers guys on this forum are using. Look at the product and make a decision based on that individual products quality.

good luck,
JeffD

[Brad Westcott]

If you do some searching, you will find that most of the Delta products just do not hold up to their competition when reviewed by professionals. They seem to have lost their focus and are no longer the top dog in woodworking equipment.

I have a Delta Professional contractors table saw (no longer made) that is as accurate as anything I will ever need. It has obviously held up over the many years and although I have been tempted to upgrade to a Jet or Grizzy hybrid, I just can not justify the expenditure as long as my saw still cuts straight and true and still reliable.

I could say the same about Craftsman. It used to be, that is all I bought and I still have Craftsman hand/power tools that still work after 40 years!!! But, they are not the company they once were either and I no longer buy their products.

Here in the states, many a company are run by bean counters, not owners or true managers. This leads to poor decisions based on numbers on a spreadsheet. Well, guess what, not everything is quantifiable in this manner and many a large company are paying the price for only caring about stock price and dividends to the stock holders.