Why not Delta?

[Sean Nagle]

All the negative input concerning Delta customer service and parts availability is very disconcerting.

I equipped my shop during the 90's and practically all my machines are Delta: Unisaw, DJ-15, DC-380, 17" DP, 14" BS and several bench-top machines. They have all served me quite well. The only stationary machines I'd like to "upgrade" would be the DP and BS.

I recall usenet discussions at the time always talking about Delta's superior availability of parts as a primary reason to choose Delta. People would often cite the availability of parts for 40-year old machines. I suppose no one can predict which of today's manufacturers will continue to support their products in 10, 20 or 40 years.

[mickey cassiba]

One of Delta's problems is that they have changed hands so many times. Each new owner has a different business model. I know...I survived three of the last changes. The real descent started when Pentair Corp bought them and decided to "modernize" the Porter Cable and Delta lines. Instead of trying to remain on top as the standard to be aspired to, they decided to become competitive with the consumer oriented lines. As a result the "bloodline" if you will, became diluted, and over time, when Pentair could no longer return a high return to their investors, PC & D, along with Oldham, and Beismeyer, Flex and Devillbis, collectively went on the block, to be snapped up by the worlds largest tool manufacturer/marketer, who shall here remain nameless.
I still repair Delta and Porter Cable tools, as well as DeWalt,and others, because we use them daily in the plant. Parts are becoming scarcer for the old stuff, but as one poster stated, hardly any industry stocks parts for units more than ten or fifteen years old. Logistically, it woud be a nightmare to keep up with, financially it would be insane to manufacture & stock parts for which there would be at best a 10-15 piece per year demand.
Does it suck? Yes it does.A good many craftsmen lost their jobs when Pentair began outsourcing.
A good many more lost theirs when the current owners took possesion. A lot of them my friends of many years.
Rant over...sorry, but I've been following this thread with great interest since it started, and I felt I had to add an eye-witness account.
Mickey

[John Coloccia]

I like my delta drill press, although I would probably not recommend it nescessarily. Generaly, I don't think delta gives me good value for my money. I think I get higher quality units fir the same price from other sources, or much higher quality units for just a little more money. On the low end I can get similar quality units for less. That's just my opinion but I think that's why delta is not talked about very much. I think they live at a very awkward price point.

[Tony Bilello]

Thanks Mickey, great story.

[Rod Sheridan]

Although there have been many posts regarding how unprofitable it would be for a manufacturer to continue to stock and manufacture parts for old machines, some do.

I own a 33 year old BMW motorcycle, and parts are available from the dealer on mostly a next day basis.

BMW in fact has reverse engineered parts for their pre-war motorcycles. Those of you who ride, know that BMW sell very few motorcycles, however the ones they sell often have hundreds of thousands of miles on them, and it's not unusual to see many machines that are 30 to 50 years old, out on the road.

A manufacturer can produce a quality product that lasts decades, and profitably support them, if they have a customer base willing to pay for it.

Buy cheap, low margin stuff, of course there won't be support for it, new or old.

Buy quality stuff, then there's enough margin to make it worthwhile to keep the machine in service, and enough return for the manufacturer to continue to support you.

Regards, Rod.

[mickey cassiba]

Although there have been many posts regarding how unprofitable it would be for a manufacturer to continue to stock and manufacture parts for old machines, some do.

I own a 33 year old BMW motorcycle, and parts are available from the dealer on mostly a next day basis.

BMW in fact has reverse engineered parts for their pre-war motorcycles. Those of you who ride, know that BMW sell very few motorcycles, however the ones they sell often have hundreds of thousands of miles on them, and it's not unusual to see many machines that are 30 to 50 years old, out on the road.

A manufacturer can produce a quality product that lasts decades, and profitably support them, if they have a customer base willing to pay for it.

Buy cheap, low margin stuff, of course there won't be support for it, new or old.

Buy quality stuff, then there's enough margin to make it worthwhile to keep the machine in service, and enough return for the manufacturer to continue to support you.

Regards, Rod.

Hi Rod...I understand your point, and I love BMW motorcycles(I have an early R69 I am restoring), but how many thousands of different models has BMW produced in their long and venerable history? My last service manual from Delta(lists only last 15 rears of production) has 1900 entries, each a different model.
Not being argumentative here, but a completely different business model. That said, I'm going to bow out of the posting and just read, lest I appear "trollish".
Mick

[Neal Clayton]

A manufacturer maintaining part support for a 20 years model must be difficult and expensive. I don't even see this in the automotive world let alone home heating systems, appliances, electronics, etc. Worst yet, think about the software industry.

Perhaps Delta may have built their equipment too well back then. The parts department is apparently not profitable, or even sustainable, and now it's unreasonable for these tough old machines.

-Jeff

well, my 'new' PM66 i bought two years ago (new as in, new to my shop, built in 1989), was missing belts, motor cover, and a couple of lock knobs for the bevel and blade height wheels when i got it. i got all of those sent from tennessee the same day i called them, for about 85 bucks.

i also own a delta RAS. when i got it the arbor had a slight wobble, i paid very little for it assuming motor replacement. delta wanted 400 dollars for a 1.5hp 110v motor. i did manage to talk them down to 300, which is still highway robbery. the switch went bad a week later, i paid them 65 for a replacement switch, which is a glorified light switch on that small a machine. six months later, the new switch is broken. and all of this not even concerning myself with the fact that the bevel and swing stops have two or three degrees of slop. it's only useful for a crosscutting saw because there is no accuracy if you move it from zero. this is all on a machine that's about 4-5 years old.

now, i don't expect a 1200 dollar radial arm saw to be as rugged as a 3500 dollar table saw. however, i do expect the moving parts to actually work for at least 10 years. because i've got alot older tools that have been working alot longer than that.

now i know why the shop i got it from was giving it away. they probably wont' make the mistake of buying delta tools for backup use either. because it didn't take them long to get tired of this one. nor is gonna take me much longer to put it on craigslist for a hundred bucks delivered. just waiting for an old dewalt to show up locally so i can get rid of this thing .

[Chris Rosenberger]

Clayton, have you priced a new motor for your Powermatic 66 from Powermatic? The last time I looked it was close to $800. The same motor from a motor shop in around $400. The motor for the radial arm saw is only available from Delta. It appears to me that the reason the shop was giving the radial arm saw away was because it had a bent arbor & they did not want to spend the money to replace the motor.

I have waited months to get parts from Delta & I have waited months to get parts from Powermatic. On the other hand, I have gotten parts from both in a few days. It just depends on the parts you need at the time.

I have one of the new Delta Unisaws. I cannot think of any improvements that could be made to it. It is a very well designed saw. That is why the price is high. Powermatic has a new, very well designed band saw. It is also high priced.

Companies will make what people want to buy.

[Kevin Groenke]

I have one of the new Delta Unisaws. I cannot think of any improvements that could be made to it. It is a very well designed saw.

REALLY??

NOTHING??

Wouldn't it be cool if the saw somehow STOPPED if you slipped and got a finger into it? You would think an innovative, safety conscious, customer oriented company like Delta would have the resources to do that or the business acumen to buy it if somebody else was able to do it.

Must be impossible.

[mickey cassiba]

REALLY??

NOTHING??

Wouldn't it be cool if the saw somehow STOPPED if you slipped and got a finger into it? You would think an innovative, safety conscious, customer oriented company like Delta would have the resources to do that or the business acumen to buy it if somebody else was able to do it.

Must be impossible.

I know I promised to bow out of this one, but guys...there is no more DELTA! It is Black and Decker Incorporated
Bottom line is money, not customer satisfaction, safety or any other noble ideal. Just money.

[Peter Quinn]

I hear the same explanation about the Delta parts situation each time their name comes up, its too expensive to be profitable to support machines, nobody does it, so they don't. Except some do. We have numerous aged Powermatic machines, TS's and shapers, BS, sanders, and seem able to get parts for all of them typically quite rapidly, from WMH. Even parts for some rather old machines I would expect would be long gone. And many parts are readily available from MSC or Master Carr, almost as if they had been MADE to be repaired with stock parts.

I guess my thinking is that Delta has had so many model's on some of their tools, and has changed hands so many times at this point, that they are a liability to own. They made the same basic shaper from Rockwell days to present for over 40 years, making only minor changes to a solid design, and yet they deem the older machines (ie: anything pre TIAWAN and thus SAE and not metric) irrelevant? I actually cornered a Delta rep at a tool vendor's sales desk and asked quite frankly why I couldn't get parts for my machine, and was told they would prefer I BUY A NEW SHAPER THAN SELL ME PARTS FOR THE OLD ONE! More profitable. Well I did buy another shaper, and it was most certainly not one of theirs. I will keep the old Delta until it dies or I do, and which will happen first is unclear, but what is clear is that I will die before I buy another major Delta machine.

[Chris Rosenberger]

REALLY??

NOTHING??

Wouldn't it be cool if the saw somehow STOPPED if you slipped and got a finger into it? You would think an innovative, safety conscious, customer oriented company like Delta would have the resources to do that or the business acumen to buy it if somebody else was able to do it.

Must be impossible.

I thought Saw Stop made those.
Not everyone is afraid of their table saw.

[David Keller NC]

Well - This is a bit of a different take on this discussion, but as to why most of the discussion on the net boards are of Grizzly (and even Harbor Freight, of all things) and not Delta, Felder, etc..., remember that net boards are not the sum and total of the woodworking community. Based on my work experience assessing the general desire of different age groups to use the internet and "new" communication forms such as blogs, vblogs, etc..., and the fact (an unfortunate fact, IMO) that most of the woodworking base are older males, I'd guess that net forums actually represent a very small fraction of the overall WW community.

And for reasons I don't fully understand, those that do actively participate are inordinately interested in the lowest price possible for any given category. That tends to skew the discussion to the lowest priced manufacturer, which currently seems to be Grizzly. Those of us that consider buying at the lowest price point in a given category unwise are the rarity.

[jack duren]

I have seen numerous threads about the purchase of new tools and they always seem to be about PM, Griz, or other brands. I rarely see threads about the purchase of NEW Delta products. Why? Is it the price point? Quality? Service? Just wondering. I have always been a fan of Delta tools (I have several) and wondered why I don't see more opinion about their tools here other than older refurbished models.

Most people here purchase based on saving a buck for similiar products or paying more for similiar products. anything in the middle isnt special.

For standard cabinet making machinery I always shop Delta first....

[Kent A Bathurst]

.....Not everyone is afraid of their table saw.

No kidding!! Sawstop should be commended for their innovation, but that doesn't mean other brands failed. There are a LOT of fast-moving sharp things in my workshop, and I know how to respect them and use them safely. Jeeeez.