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Thread: Sharpening entirely with diamond stones/plates

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Sharpening entirely with diamond stones/plates

    I'm thinking about cconverting entirely to diamond stones/plates for all of my sharpening needs. Any drawbacks/advantages before I tool up? (with the exception of using a strop after i get to 6/8000 grit)

    I've been using a combo of things right now. a coarse Diamond stone for minor adjustments to initial bevel (i use a jet wet grinder for putting on a new bevel)

    i follow up the coarse stone with waterstones. 1000/6000 combo. hone up on both, then i move to a strop with the yellow flexcut compound for a final polishing.

    I'm wanting to get rid of the waterstones as they wear out quickly, require constant levelling and are going to eat up more money in the long run.

    any drawbacks to using only diamonds?

    (i know the diamond stones arent always as flat as i'd like them to be. )

    thanks,

    dan
    Building my own Legos!

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Hi Dan

    I am not sure if I follow your planned route.

    You also need to realise that diamonds are not forever ... they wear out, and in the long run they are more expensive than waterstones.

    As far as I am aware, DMT offer 275 grit (Extra Coarse), 325 (Coarse), 600 (Fine), 1200 (Extra Fine) and 8000.

    The jump from 1200 to 8000 will be OK if you use your Jet wet grinder to create a hollow grind and always hone a microbevel.

    Using the Jet you only need the 1200 and 8000 diamond stones. The 1200 will straighten the bevel off the Jet, and the 8000 will polish the edge. Follow this with Flexcut or Veritas green rouge if you wish.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek (who does have a few diamond stones but prefers Shaptons)

  3. #3
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    diamonds are not forever

    but i think waterstones are going to eat more money over the long term.

    Yep, i use the Jet to put a hollow ground bevel on the metal. However, I dont maintain a hollow ground bevel on any particular tool. Once i have the blade honed and in working condition, i rarely need to go back for a new hollow grind. it just seems like a waste of metal for the most part.

    I guess im going to have to find out the hard way how long a diamond stone will last.

    any estimates?

    cheers,

    dan
    Building my own Legos!

  4. #4
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    Dan, I don't know how long a diamond stone will last, though IIRC, there are certain types of steel that chew them up quicker than others. I am a poor example because I bounce back and forth from system to system, but have used diamond paste and that works pretty well - though I don't know how long it lasts, I read somewhere that it is pretty economical.

  5. #5
    Diamond stones offer some distinct advantages: they are quick to getting working and out of the way when you are finished. The bad news is that they don't do an adequate job of putting a fine edge on your tools. By that I mean that your chisels and plane irons need to be taken beyond the limits of sharpness afforded by diamond stones. I have to admit that I have no experience with an 8000 grit diamond plate. I had read a few comments about them that were not generally favorable.
    Another advantage is that they give you a way to advance through course and meduium grits without the dubbing side effects of sandpaper. Again, you need to go beyond diamonds if you want the best results.

  6. #6
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    beyond diamonds?

    Mike,

    you say to "go beyond diamonds" but this seemingly contradicts the fact that diamond stones are available in 8000 grit. I think 8000 grit is going far enough in most cases. i don't know a lot of people that spend much time "beyond" 8000 grit.

    I polish on a strop with the flexcut compound after 6/8000 grit. this is "going beyond" as well.

    maybe i'm not following what youre saying.

    are you suggesting to go into the 12000 and 15000 and higher grits?

    or are you inferring that diamonds are the "easy" or "amateur" method as opposed to waterstones, shaptons, scary sharp, etc.

    please clarify on "beyond". I would like to know what you know.

    Thanks,

    dan
    Building my own Legos!

  7. #7
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    Feb 2009
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    If you want stones that wear slowly, don't cost to much,without a mess and cut fairly fast(nothing like good water stones...)Norton Oil stones would be a solution to your "problems"!

  8. Dan,

    I'm not a sharpening scientist. So I can only speak from experience. I have a few diamond stones (DMTs, mostly, but also the Odate crowning plate) and use them often to get past a nick if I don't want to grind. But lately I haven't been using them at all and use only waterstones.

    What I can say, and perhaps what Mike was getting at, is that a given grit on a diamond stone does not leave as fine an edge as the same grit with other sharpening media. Again--I can only speak from experience here, and if you have both a diamond stone and a waterstone in the same grit (or rough equivalent), I'm sure your experience would tell you the same, though I hear the dia-sharpes are better stones for honing purposes than the DMTs.

    In the end though, I suspect I'm equating "scratch pattern" with "edge fineness" which is a terrible way to evaluate. A year or two ago I stopped caring about theoretical sharpness and basically evaluated an edge on its ability to cut, and I've been much better off since. I suppose there's some pride in using a tool knowing that it has been sharpened to theoretical perfection, but in the end if I'm getting the results I want, I could care less if the microbevel has a mirror polish or not.

    I understand there are financial concerns in your question, but really, I've been at this a few years and I've gone through one, maybe one and a half waterstones, all low-grits which wear much faster than the higher grit stones (and grits which I don't use anymore). The cost savings would be negligible for most people, I think, and it might take quite some time to "break even" assuming you're going with high-quality diamond stones.

    Anyway, I'd suggest borrowing some diamond stones for a weekend to see if they leave you with acceptable edges/performance. That's the test that matters, and any decision you make regarding your sharpening setup would fall from that.
    Last edited by Narayan Nayar; 10-11-2009 at 1:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Barr View Post

    ...I guess im going to have to find out the hard way how long a diamond stone will last.

    any estimates?
    Dan,

    Diamonds are an amazing abrasive, they'll cut anything. One downside is that they're slow cutting because of their faceted soccer ball shape. Other abrasives look more like jagged icebergs.

    There are also a couple more downsides to diamonds. You can't put much pressure on diamonds, they'll fracture easily under pressure and go away quickly when abused. The biggest issue though, is the matrix diamonds are mounted in. I know DMT says their diamonds are set in a nickle matrix.

    Let me tell you about an experience I had. A few years ago I was working on some specialty O-1 plane irons that needed to be ground to a pretty exact width and they needed some accurate side clearance angles ground at the same time. I just ordered some diamond wheels for the KK Calamar grinder we use in our metal shop for sharpening some of the metal working tools because I knew the grinder had the accuracy and capability to do what I needed.

    If you clicked on the link for the wheels, you can see they don't give them away. I was a bit horrified to wear out one of those wheels on the second iron and in just maybe 15 minutes of grinding. I called the manufacturer and asked for a tech rep. I explained what had happened and that I still had 38 more irons to grind.

    He said that the diamonds are mounted by electroplating over them with nickle and the nickle is intended to wear away and expose more of the diamonds as their top structure spalls away. He explained that I should never grind steel or other metals that render a stringy swarf when ground. The stringy swarf is much like very sharp steel wool and quickly wears away the nickle which releases the diamonds to just fall away. The nickle matrix is intended for materials like carbide or stone that generate a granular swarf when ground. This granular swarf doesn't undermine the nickle like a stringy swarf and allows the grinding wheels to last a long time. He told me I might be able to extend the life of the wheels slightly by hardening the steel before I grind but he still wouldn't advise me to continue doing what I was.

    I still use DMT extra coarse stones but only to maintain my oil stones. I'm amazed at how long the DMT lasts when only flattening our oil stones but I found another method to grind those plane irons.

    My experience is that well dressed and maintained oil stones cut as fast as water stones, stay flatter, and require almost no maintenance time compared to water stones. A translucent hard Arkansas stone medium India will run about $130 and extra coarse DMT diamond stone about $90. These and a strop are all you need for bench chisels and bench plane irons. My guess is that one each of these will probably last the average woodworker a life-time.

  10. #10
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    Well said Narayan! One thing I would add is other than smoothing planes, where a polished finish hedge is the way to go, it sur not requiered for a plane that is use for heavyer cuts... even if the sharper it is the easyer it is to push!!

  11. #11
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    College Station, Texas
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    I do use other sharpening medias at times, but for the most part I am a pure diamond fanatic. I use loose diamond grit on steel plates, rods and slivers, depending on what I am sharpening.

    Here is an article I wrote on the subject.

    Diamond grit is fast, ignores the hardness of different steels, and if you do it right, is the cheapest way to get top end results. I currently use annealed O1 plates as kanabans and use loose diamond grit on those plates.

    Bob

  12. #12
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    portland oregon
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    Larry good info. for eyars no one could really explain why diamond didn ot work well on steel.
    I tried diamond laps on my makita's and even with water they did not hold up well. I gave up and changed them over to sandpaper.
    if you want stones that are fast and will last then get shapton stones. the only stones I never wore out. this is coming from someone who wore out norton 100's in a month bester stones in 3 and work out several makita slow grinder stones. use the diamond to flatten the stones not to sharpen with.
    Steve knight
    cnc routing

  13. #13
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    Jan 2009
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    Williamsburg,Va.
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    My Spyerdco black and white ceramic stones are what I use after an initial bevel setting on a diamond stone to get rid of small nicks. The ceramic stones are A LOT harder than Arkansas stones. I made a knife out of D2 steel,and never could get it quite razor sharp. When I got the Spydercos,it sharpened right up. The steel was harder than the Arkansas stone! I strop after using the white stone. You should buy the superfine white stone,because it is ground flat,while the fine white stone isn't perfectly flat,and has to be flattened with a diamond stone. Guys have complained about it.

    I wouldn't consider going to all diamond honing myself,as my system works quickly enough,and these stones do not wear out,or hollow.

  14. #14
    Larry,

    Your insight about steel on diamond was an epiphany for me. When you mentioned that concept at your WWIA presentation, I suddenly realized why I’ve never had the kind of results with diamond sharpening as I expected. NOW it makes sense.

  15. I have used the scary sharp method for a long time but in the past few months, I did switch to diamond stones. The only problem I have encountered is that they are not always perfectly flat. I noticed this first when I switched stones.
    Luckily, my super fine stone seems to be perfectly flat but I was never satisfied with my edge afterwards so I bought the Spyderco stones (the one that is white and 3" wide... its' relatively new) and that brought my edge to a mirror shine.
    The ease of cut is amazing. I was blown away the first time I used the Spyderco for my final sharpening.

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