Windows 7. Has anyone else started to plan for the upgrade?

[Scott Shepherd]

Take the IPod and IPhone out of the Apple line up and they've not much to hang their hat on.

And are we so far removed from the stock bubble that we have forgotten how inaccurate share prices are as a measure of a companies dominance in their market?

Apple stock may or may not be higher than MS stock at this moment, too lazy to check. But which company has a bigger foot print/install base.

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

[Curt Harms]

Linux is fine for more tech oriented people. And I have even installed a copy of Ubuntu for my parents that surf the internet on an older machine.

Yeah to get drivers to make their printer work was a PITA. It works but still lost the functionality of the scanner.

I'll pop an old 250GB drive in and test drive FreeBSD and see how well it edits the AVCHD video. Any reccomendations on programs or will there be an editor already installed ?

Take a look at the support sections of web sites of hardware vendors when you purchase printers etc. Some offer good Linux/FreeBSD support, others don't. i have 2 brother MFD's and was able to get print and scan functions working pretty easily. I don't see any information configuring the card readers on the one. Another resource is :http://www.linuxfoundation.org/colla...s/openprinting. You can enter a printer model and see if it works with open source operating systems. Gotta love the name of the printer driver database...Foomatic.

[Anthony Scira]

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

Yeah and HP alone sold 14,000,000 laptops. Acer adds another 11,000,000 laptops. This is not including all the other manufacturers and their previous mentioned desktop lines.

And the iphone was released 2007, and iPods way back in 2001. So yeah the 5 years times about right for the iPod and iPhone sales to make the stock zoom.

[Scott Shepherd]

2007 isn't 5 fiscal years ago.

HP sold a lot of computers, great. So did Acer. Great, so did Apple.

I just don't understand the complete dismissal of a company that large. The don't make toys, they make products that people love. They smoked. Yes, SMOKED everyone else in customer satisfaction surveys. They had over 80% customer satisfaction. Not a single other business in that group had that level of customer satisfaction, yet the "Apple Bashers" refuse to give them the credit they have earned.

I don't care what you buy. PC, Mac, doesn't matter to me. I don't own stock in either one and I don't own a Mac, but some people just can't give them credit when credit is due. Call it what you want, but I'd rather have Apple stock in my portfolio than MS and I don't think you'll find anyone that would argue against that point.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

True....Apple has been doing very well since the imac came out....can't wait to have one personally. Except for XP I am MS free right now.

While XP is the most stable MS product I have ever seen [and I've used them all since Win 3.1 came out], I grow sick to death of all the viruses that get written and all the scanners we have to have to prevent them from melting our hard drive. With Apple's OS this is not an issue.

Since I am going to be converting over to digital drafting versus the pencil soon, the Apple computer makes more sense. The graphics capabilities are vastly superior to windows.

[Anthony Scira]

2007 isn't 5 fiscal years ago.

HP sold a lot of computers, great. So did Acer. Great, so did Apple.

I just don't understand the complete dismissal of a company that large. The don't make toys, they make products that people love. They smoked. Yes, SMOKED everyone else in customer satisfaction surveys. They had over 80% customer satisfaction. Not a single other business in that group had that level of customer satisfaction, yet the "Apple Bashers" refuse to give them the credit they have earned.

I don't care what you buy. PC, Mac, doesn't matter to me. I don't own stock in either one and I don't own a Mac, but some people just can't give them credit when credit is due. Call it what you want, but I'd rather have Apple stock in my portfolio than MS and I don't think you'll find anyone that would argue against that point.

But 2001 iPod release has been 8 1/2 years. The iPod is what gave Apple the boost they needed and then the phone was a boom.

I don't dismiss them they just don't appeal to me. They don't run the software I like to run. They make a heck of a phone though. I even own one and my wife will too. Although ATT is starting to tick me off but we will save that for another thread.

Support is another issue. One of the things pc makers have been stripping out is support and will charge for it. There I have no experience, except for laptops my systems are homebrews.

I am not bashing Apple. Just saying 11 million computers sold is not that big in the grand picture of computer sales.

Did they market the Vista fiasco, hell yes. And it definately hurt sales for the PC.

But now Apple will not have Vista to push around anymore. I can already tell you Apple will loose ground unless they come up with an inexpensive computer for the average joe.

This is the kind of thing that will keep people from making the jump. Especially in this economy. They even have a celeron for like 199 that would be fine for 80% of computer users. But this onle looked like a pretty good rig for the money.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=A180-4518

[Greg Peterson]

If Acer, Dell or HP sold 12 million computers in a year they would be in serious trouble. Compaq would probably be happy with 12 million laptops.

No one disputes the fact that Apple is a big company. But in relative terms, they are small.

As Jobs goes, so goes Apple. If anything negative happens to Jobs watch the Apple stock plummet. Apple's history is very interesting. To call it volatile would be an understatement. Based on the history of Apple and Jobs (especially with Jobs health these days), I would not look to Apple as a safe harbor for long term investments.

[Scott Shepherd]

If anything negative happens to Jobs watch the Apple stock plummet. Apple's history is very interesting. To call it volatile would be an understatement. Based on the history of Apple and Jobs (especially with Jobs health these days), I would not look to Apple as a safe harbor for long term investments.

At least they've had a run up for it to fall from. Long term investment? Who knows? Is anything a long term investment any more?

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

[Greg Peterson]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

That's because Apple is running with the Intel crowd now. WinTel machines have been able to dual boot OS's for years.

Scott - Apple could have owned the computer world several times over and MS would have been a bit player. The culture at Apple before Jobs came back was prone to self destructing. Whether or not they've learned their lessons remains to be seen. But without Jobs vision and presence in the company, Apple ceases to be Apple.

Since both platforms are essentially running the same hardware, the real difference between Apple and MS in the PC arena is the OS.

[Scott Shepherd]

But without Jobs vision and presence in the company, Apple ceases to be Apple.

Same could have been said of Bill Gates for the last 20 years.

Both are visionary people and almost impossible to directly replace.

[Greg Peterson]

Gates stepped down from MS two or three years ago. Balmer is running the show now and 7 is pretty much his baby. MS seems to be doing fine without Gates.

Apple's best years have been when Jobs was directly involved with the company.

[Anthony Scira]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

Why would I want to buy a more expensive machine to emulate what I have for less ?

Not to mention Windows 7 which is what this thread is really about. Just did 3 installs and all I can say is Microsoft hit a home run. Not one driver issue even on the notebook. That did not happen with Vista. One notebook I did a clean install and the other I did an upgrade from Vista just to see how it went and it was uneventful. The third I did on my desktop I did a clean install with a dual boot. (Vista, XP, Ubuntu, Win7).

Ok to be fair to Apple they have NICE looking computers. The stuff they design is top notch. And even the cardboard boxed they come in look nice. So if you need something elegant to go with your furnature I guess I would go with a Mac. But until I can go into a Apple Store and see something my PC can not do without using a emulator I still see no need.

[Scott Shepherd]

So if you need something elegant to go with your furnature I guess I would go with a Mac. But until I can go into a Apple Store and see something my PC can not do without using a emulator I still see no need.

See, that's exactly my point. Just bash them all you can. It's just unfounded. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do they include service and support that you do not get with a PC? Absolutely. Do you have to buy or pay for yearly subscriptions to anti-virus programs? No (oh, wait, I know the answer to that, one day, some time in the future, you will have to because someone 3 years from now will write a virus and you'll need it then). Do you have a monitor that displays actual colors with that PC? No. Why? Because you can't buy a decent color monitor for the $129 they offer for monitors. Apple's monitors are superior to what comes with a stock PC. So want to compare things equally, then let's compare them equally. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do you get more support? Yes. Do you have less to have to pay in yearly subscriptions to keep yourself safe? Yes. Do you do graphics design work where color is critical? Then you won't do it with a monitor that can't be calibrated because it's so far off, not to mention a video card that's not capable of displaying colors properly. Want to be able to do that with your PC monitor? Good, plan on spending $600 on a monitor. So, are they more? Yes. Do you get a higher quality product and service? Sure do. Is your annual cost less. Sure is.

Also, last time I checked, Bill Gates is still the Chairman of Microsoft. So I'm not sure how he's not involved with running the company any longer, but if you say so.

[Anthony Scira]

See, that's exactly my point. Just bash them all you can. It's just unfounded. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do they include service and support that you do not get with a PC? Absolutely. Do you have to buy or pay for yearly subscriptions to anti-virus programs? No (oh, wait, I know the answer to that, one day, some time in the future, you will have to because someone 3 years from now will write a virus and you'll need it then). Do you have a monitor that displays actual colors with that PC? No. Why? Because you can't buy a decent color monitor for the $129 they offer for monitors. Apple's monitors are superior to what comes with a stock PC. So want to compare things equally, then let's compare them equally. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do you get more support? Yes. Do you have less to have to pay in yearly subscriptions to keep yourself safe? Yes. Do you do graphics design work where color is critical? Then you won't do it with a monitor that can't be calibrated because it's so far off, not to mention a video card that's not capable of displaying colors properly. Want to be able to do that with your PC monitor? Good, plan on spending $600 on a monitor. So, are they more? Yes. Do you get a higher quality product and service? Sure do. Is your annual cost less. Sure is.

Also, last time I checked, Bill Gates is still the Chairman of Microsoft. So I'm not sure how he's not involved with running the company any longer, but if you say so.

How is complimenting them on GREAT designs bashing ?

Like I said I am not bashing. I have never said don't buy a Mac. If you have the cash I would think its great to buy one. I am just saying most people could not tell the diffrence or if they could be willing to pay the diffrence for the higher end units.

I mean I am using a 24" HP monitor. Is the color correct ? I really don't know. In corel my hairline is red enough. My HD video looks pretty. Mine was 250 I think the compareable Apple one is 700. I can't afford that much for a monitor. I know its better but my $250 one does the job well. I guess if your in a graphics line of work you need the high end stuff.

Apple support is FAR superior than what you get from PC's unless you buy the gold service package.

Yep no viruses on Mac. But I have not gotten a virus on the PC. I have to work at it by staying updated by MS update. I do not download attachments and I do not open attachments in email and I have never been hit by anything.

Bottom line the average person plays on the internet, watches youtube videos. That does not require a 1500 dollar computer. That is why these netbooks have taken off. 300 bucks and your on the internet watching You Tube ! And those are running Linux !

Steve we gotta get together and have a drink after all that !

Oh yeah and I do NOT work for Microsoft.........