Plane Confused

[Ron Brese]

Dennis,

Like most people you have judged planes based on the way you have been able to get them top perform. I would highly suggest that the next time a Lie-Nielsen Hand Tool Event is in your area you should go observe and ask questions. These events provide an educational opportunity that you will seldom get anywhere else. Depending on which quest exhibitors are at the particular event you will be able to see everything from a $100.00 block plane to infill planes that are in the $2000.00 and up price range, but most importantly you will find out how to make planes work to a very high standard of function and you will learn a lot otherwise about the capabilities of these tools.

You'll see some surfaces created by these tools that you probably did not think were possible to achieve, which means you will learn the difference between a $40.00 plane and a $400.00 plane and the difference between sort of sharp and remarkably sharp cutting edges on plane irons. The world of woodworking hand tools is wide and deep and more varied that one can imagine. Before you pass judgment on whether you will pursue doing more work with hand tools do some investigating and some learning. The next thing you know, you'll own no less than 10 planes. (grin)

Ron Brese

Disclaimer: I make and sell infill planes and I exhibit at some of these L-N events and I am very biased in my opinion concerning hand tools.

[George Beck]

I usually don't jump in on these debates. It is sort of a different strokes for different folks thing. However, I want to second what Ron Brese stated. I just attended the Lie-Nielsen hand tool event in Indianapolis and I had a great time. I plane everything but I mostly have Japanese planes and wooden planes I made for myself (that's a whole different affliction). I also cannot imagine having one plane (that is like picking one Beatle song). If I was forced to pick one, I would consider the Lie-Nielsen low angle BU jack plane (or the LV). I purchased this plane at the event with three blades. I have a toothing blade for roughing stock without tearout, a O-1 steel blade sharpened pretty much dead straight at a low angle(about 23 degrees), an the A-2 steel blade with a slight camber on the edge. This one plane is now a roughing plane, a shooting board plane, a large smoother, a small jointer and a jack plane. It can and has taken gossamer shavings off birds eye maple. It might be worth looking at. BTW, Ron makes incredible planes! If I ever sell the old Triumph Spit-fire I might get one.

George

[Frank Drew]

I must say that I am confused as to why there is such a wide range of planes...

Dennis, to answer this part of your question, all these sizes and varieties of planes and other hand tools evolved during the time before powered machinery became available but sophisticated work was expected and offered.

[David Gendron]

Price Doesn't realy mather in term of the way the tool work and I think Jim K. proved that many time. I made a Krenov plane a few months ago and it cost me $40 for the Hock blade assembly and a few pieces of sraps for the boddy and I have a better plane than most of my metal boddy plane...

[Jim Koepke]

One thing we are fortunate to have in this conference is the Sticky at the top for Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs.

I wish some of the other conferences had this feature.

There is a lot of information about old hand tools, how to treat them and how to make them perform contained in that thread.

It is a great read for anyone with questions about hand tools.

jim

[Danny Thompson]

...when a jointer, or router table and sandpaper can accomplish about the same task, and maybe better.

Somebody get a rope. . .

[Joe Close]

Interesting signature line Dennis,

"Measure twice, and cut--WAIT!-- better measure again then cut once, twice or whatever it takes to fit. "

With a hand tool, you measure twice, cut once a wee long, then sneak up on the final fit w/ your hand plane....

I think Chris Schwarz said in his hand plane book something along these lines... it is pretty difficult to setup a table saw to take off a thousand'th of an inch from a board, but it is a pretty simple task w/ a hand plane.

And for me its just kind of fun to use these types of tools...

[Brian Kent]

Because morning coffee tastes better with wood shavings than sawdust.

Because I can plane a board at 6 AM but wait until after 8 AM to use power tools, and I leave for work at 8:45.

Brian

[lowell holmes]

I also used to have horses. Why or who would anyone ride a horse in this day and age? Sometimes, it is a satifying thing to do.

The big reason that got me started was having to make corrections on a cherry blanket chest and I had no hand skills. It's very difficult to make a small adjustment with a screaming tool that is about to amputate a finger. A chisel, hand saw, or my new favorite tool . . . a 3/16" flat float from Lie Nielsen makes it quickly and easily.

[Dan Lee]

Mostly power tool user but I learned to sharpen bout 5 years ago and that let me incorporate hand plane and chisel use to the arsenal
Some of my perferred uses with planes are faster and crisper results cleaning up box joints and thru DT. Cleaning up TS or jointer marks on the edges of boards and MT joinery. Love that LV medium shoulder plane, couple of swipes with that and a perfect fit
I've lately been using a scrub plane to get boards to wide for my jointer 'flat enouf' to take a first pass through the power planer.
Options are great thing

[Dennis Collins]

OK Guys. I have been trying to find a dictionary for plane usage as I have heard so many plane type being described here that I feel like that unless I have 15 different type of planes, I will still be missing the one that I need when I need it.

That being said is there a logic to the plane lingo:
block (Small hand plane, right)
rabbet (I think I understand this one)
jointer (like my jet jointer but by hand)
rabbet block
bench
jack
fore
smooth plane
4 smooth plane
4.5 smooth plane
bevel up smooth plane
low angle smooth plane
on & on.

[John Coloccia]

OK Guys. I have been trying to find a dictionary for plane usage as I have heard so many plane type being described here that I feel like that unless I have 15 different type of planes, I will still be missing the one that I need when I need it.

That being said is there a logic to the plane lingo:
block (Small hand plane, right)
rabbet (I think I understand this one)
jointer (like my jet jointer but by hand)
rabbet block
bench
jack
fore
smooth plane
4 smooth plane
4.5 smooth plane
bevel up smooth plane
low angle smooth plane
on & on.

Think that's confusing? Ever hear golf club names? Niblicks, baffs, spoons....

Without getting way too far into it:

The smoothing planes are short and are designed to make a nice surface, ready for finish, or at most a little scraping. This will not make your piece flat because it's not designed to make it flat.

Jack, fore, scrub and jointer planes are typically used to prepare rough stock and get it flat and straight. The distinguishing characteristics are the length of the sole. The longer it is, the flatter the resulting piece will be but the more difficult it will be to fix large imperfections.

Bench planes have the bevel facing down, and have a chipbreaker on top of the iron. Block planes have the bevel facing up and have no chip breaker. So a bevel up jointer, for example, is a rather large block plane, even though it looks like a bench plane.

The difference and advantages between bevel up and bevel down really depend on the type of wood and type of work you're doing. Bevel up works great on end grain and maybe highly figured woods. Bevel down works well everywhere else. Bevel down is almost invariably larger and more complex because of the required chip breaker.

The most important rule, though, is that there are no rules and much of the advantages, disadvantages and differences will change depending on what the craftsman is looking for, and their particular style of usage. So it's kind of like the difference between making a groove with a dado blade vs. a router.

Like I said before, I'm a hand tool and power tool junky. I just use whatever I think will be most efficient. For example, I'll often use my jack plane to very roughly true a board before making the initial face jointing pass on my jointer. Why? Because it takes me about a minute to get it to where I just need a couple of passes on the jointer, and when I flatten it a bit before hand I don't end up with a big taper. With some of the VERY rough boards I use, it's very easy to joint a taper into the board. It's very easy to get it flat enough by hand that I don't have to worry about it.

Also, my hand jointed edges are, for lack of a better word, perfect. I've never achieved that on my jointer. It's not that it hasn't been close enough, but they've never been just absolutely perfect. When you're gluing boards that are made out of very hard, very stiff wood, and they're only .095 thick to begin with, good enough is just not good enough, and some of this wood just chips apart on the jointer anyway.

If you're a power tool user, the most useful planes in my opinion would probably be:

1) jack plane for getting really rough stock ready to power joint or power plane
2) a decent block plane for shaving a bit off of end grain here and there, or other small jobs (think like the stanley's you see at Home Depot....something like that....just not THAT particular one...LOL).
3) High quality sharpening equipment. I really like my Norton water stones. The combo 1000/8000 stone, a leather strop, a granite plate (for flattening the stone) and a decent honing guide will sharpen practically every plane and chisel in your shop. Don't even try to use a plane or chisel unless you can get it surgically sharp. It will just frustrate you and completely defeat the purpose of quality tools.

Point #3 can't be stated enough. Much of the perceived uselessness of hand tools is the use of crappy, dull hand tools. Once you use a high quality saw, plane or chisel, and see how fast and easy it can be, you'll find yourself starting to use them for all sorts of things because often times it's quicker.

Just my opinion.

[Nathan Callender]

Dennis - like others here, I think planes are great, but honestly, I only have one. A cheap block plane. However, it is tuned up and very sharp and it's amazing how quickly I can make small adjustments to get joints perfect. It provides a function that no power tool can.

I'd like a larger plane ( 10-14" ) as an all around plane for rough jointing boards before going through a planer. I'd also like a shoulder plane.. And, if I ever get a good deal on a combination plane and set of irons, I will not pass it up. Those look AMAZING! But, I'm more interested in building stuff than collecting planes so I'm not inclined to purchase the very nice but expensive LN items.

So, get a few to cover the bases, tune them up and I bet you'll find a use for them. If you don't, no big deal!

[Jim Koepke]

3) High quality sharpening equipment. I really like my Norton water stones. The combo 1000/8000 stone, a leather strop, a granite plate (for flattening the stone) and a decent honing guide will sharpen practically every plane and chisel in your shop. Don't even try to use a plane or chisel unless you can get it surgically sharp. It will just frustrate you and completely defeat the purpose of quality tools.

Point #3 can't be stated enough. Much of the perceived uselessness of hand tools is the use of crappy, dull hand tools. Once you use a high quality saw, plane or chisel, and see how fast and easy it can be, you'll find yourself starting to use them for all sorts of things because often times it's quicker.

Just my opinion.

The three most important items with hand planes... Sharpness, sharpness and sharpness! Of course, that is for a properly tuned plane.

The most amazing moment of woodworking just might be when taking as thin a shaving as your plane can while you are exhaling and the shaving just slowly rises aloft and floats away.

That will hook you on hand planes.

jim

[Brad Lehman]

I'm far from an expert, but I'll share my experience none the less.

I was in much the same situation a few years ago: 'just not getting it'. I was rapidly acquiring power tools, each with an ever increasing 'gizmo-ness' for lack of a better word.

What inititally got my started into hand tool work was making edge glued panels. No matter how hard I tried, I simply couldn't get a glue up that didn't have slight steps at each joint line, which I then had to sand out. I don't know about you, but I really, really don't like sanding.

I thought there had to be a better way, and I was eventually pointed to hand planes. At first I was incredulous. "Handplanes??!?!... you mean those torturous things we had to use in Junior High Woodshop?!??!" After doing some more reading, and more panel glue ups, I was willing to give it a try. After a lot of reading, and a few modest purchases (a decent old stanley, and a lot of sandpaper, and a piece of flat glass), I did try it and was blown away.

Now for me, there were three events that really made me a believer:

1. Getting ahold of an already fettled old Stanley smoother from Walt @ Brass City: This showed me how a plane *should* work...

2. Learning how to really sharpen a blade. Much has been written about this already, but it makes all the difference regardless of how much you spend on a plane...

3. Experiencing a really great plane (and this one was just last night)... I picked up the Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack and just got a chance to play with it last night. Now I can see where the value is in what they ask for their tools.

As they say, the slope is slippery. I can't remember the last power tool I purchased.

-- brad