Entry door

[Jason Yeager]

Hello,

I am planning on making my first entry door and thought I would run the process by the folks on the Creek. The door will be 42" wide, and 8.5' tall, and 2.25" thick. I am thinking of using a mix of LVL and alder and building a shaker style door (don't have much in the way of tools).

After ripping LVL to size, I am going to edge glue .75" stock to 1 7/8 " LVL edges, then plane down to 1.75". After, I plan to glue 3/4" stock to the faces of the LVL, then plane those rails and stiles down equally on both sides till I get to 2.25", leaving a .25" layer of alder on each face.

A local guy I know told me to make my panels out of .75" stock. He recommended making two solid panels of alder, then glue each of those panels to a piece of .25" plywood???? This would result in a sandwich with the plywood as the peanut butter and a solid panel on each side as the bread. He said that if one of the panels cracked, the plywood would prevent air/light/moisture traveling through the door. He says it works great around here and that family has been building doors for years. Never heard of doing that though. Not sure how thick the panels should be either??

Once the panels are built, I plan to dado the rails and stiles, and using M & T joinery, glue the door together (not glueing the panels). Any reccommedations would be much appreciated, especially any ideas on keeping the door square and flat during glue up.

Thanks a ton

[Mike Goetzke]

Jason - I'm preparing to make my first exterior door too. It's interesting to hear all the different methods people use. The size of your door is HUGE. I'm building a more standard 36" door. I'm thinking of using QSWO. I understand the reasons for "engineered" stiles but I'm hoping I can use solid oak for the stiles. If not, I am thinking of making my own laminated core with the oak. I'm sort of afraid when I go to rout the profile on the rails/stiles there may be a mismatch of grain with the engineered lumber. The other choice is to use mouldings for the profile - I guess.

On the ply between the panels. For a std. 1-3/4" door probably not necessary but on your 2-1/4" door sounds like a good idea as a filler if nothing else.

Keep us updated on your progress!

Mike

[Jason Yeager]

Good luck with your door Mike.

Anyone out there use a hollow chisel mortiser in LVL material or something similar??

[Brad Shipton]

Ok, so here are the tools I think we have to work with. A TS, planer and a HCM (benchtop??). No BS or jointer.

For the stave core to work you will need to develop uniform pressure on the skins. I used a wooden clamp assembly for my first stave core doors and I now use a vacuum bag. I found some good clamping examples on the woodweb.

Any chance you have access to glulams for the cores? This is what i use and it is quite a bit cheaper and lighter. Not quite as perfect as the LVL, but could joint with your planer.

Using an HCM on an LVL will be a nightmare. Maybe if you find a lower grade LVL such as a rimboard or 1.3E stock, but even then it will be tough unless you pre-drill. I bet those using LVL cores have an industrial boring machines. Even glulams were a good workout on the arms when it came time to make up the RS for four doors and I have a floor model 1hp HCM.

If your HCM is a benchtop, you might want to think about chopping them by hand. It might be just as easy if you are only building one.

Am I misreading this, or are you planning to plane 0.5" off each face? Yikes. Certainly Wood does have some veneers in 1/16" and 1/8" for door builders. Not as cheap as you can make it, but they get the best stock and since it sounds like you dont have a BS you cannot make your own.

I dont like the thought of gluing the skins to the plywood panels solidly unless it is a veneer thickness.

Does your door have much cover from the weather? A mission style door is not a great option in cases where the door is totally exposed due to all the spots where water can sit. If that is the case, I think an applied moulding may be something you might want to consider.

Keeping the door flat and square is largely dependent upon your table and the squarenss of your cuts. If your joints are not perfect, I recommend you use a shoulder plane or another hand tool to fix em. Perfect joints and it is smooth sailing.

good luck.
Brad

[Joe Jensen]

You want the panels to float in slots in the frame. Solid wood moves with humidity changes and this is especially challenging with a door. I have read many times about doing two panels back to back, but not with plywood in between. If the panel is glued into the groove in the frame it will crack because the wood will be prevented from shrinking. If it's glued everywhere to plywood it will crack. You could sandwich with plywood if only the middle of the solid wood panels are glued to the plywood. Pick the middle and run a bead of glue with the grain from top to bottom. This will make the sandwich stay together but still let the wood move with humidity changes.

[Jason Yeager]

Thanks Brad and Joe!

As you can tell, I am in my rookie season in woodworking, I have more ambition than skill and technique.

Brad, you were right on the money as far as tools go. No bs and no jointer. As far as coverage, the door is shielded well from moisture and sun.

You reccommend using glulams....what size would you buy for the door I am building? Glulams that I am familiar with are usually pretty darn big beams, which I would then have to cut down somehow??

I hadn't thought of buying veneers, that is a great idea.

I had figured on .25" veneers with the LVL so that I end up at 2.25", a standard door thickness. Seems like some people think that is too thick for a veneer, what do you say?

Last question, how do you construct your panels and how thick are they relative to the door thickness?

Thanks a ton, I really appreciate everyones time

[Peter Quinn]

Machining LVL's or other manmade materials mostly requires carbide tooling, which leaves out the HCM. Gonna be real hard on the tooling there, so start sharp and be ready to sharpen several times. On a 2 1/4" thick door I'm looking for a mortise 3" deep and at least 5/8"-3/4", which is gonna be real tough with a bench top mortiser. I'd probably look for a router with a jig based on a bushing guide myself.

On the panels, I would NOT glue solid panels to a piece of plywood ever. We have glued solid panels back to back, we have siliconed them to a man made backer which works, but never glue to plywood. Bad idea, then its not IF they crack but When they crack!

As far as edging, "After ripping LVL to size, I am going to edge glue .75" stock to 1 7/8 " LVL edges, then plane down to 1.75". ", I am a bit confused. You are starting with 1 3/4" LVL, no? So you are going to edge band it with solid wood 3/4" X 1 7/8", where does the planer come in? I would flush trim the edge banding to the LVL with a router, but I would NOT push LVL's through your planer, this may not go well.

It can be easier on a door that big to make the M&T frame with a panel groove, no panels, then glue a spacer into the panel groove and hold the panels in with panel mold glued to this spacer. You can make a pretty nice door with minimal tooling this way, and its easier to fix a panel should one fail.

Good luck, draw it up well and enjoy the process.

[Jason Yeager]

Peter,

Thanks from your insight, I usually learn a lot from your posts. I do quite a bit of construction work, and most of the LVL's that I get are actually thicker than 1 3/4", usually close to 1 7/8". Maybe just a local irregularity, I don't know.

I had planned on gluing the 3/4" edging to the rails and stiles, then planing those down to 1 3/4" to take the paint off the LVL so I get a good bond when gluing on the veneers.

I am wondering how thick panels should be for a door like this, or maybe there is not real standard, and it is up to the artisan?

Thanks again

[Jamie Buxton]

You might do well to select your hardware while you're in the planning stage. Good door hardware is surprisingly expensive.

[Jason Yeager]

Thanks Jamie,

that is a keen idea, I'd better be more diligent in planning this out so I don't hit a road block.

Cheers

Jason

[Peter Scoma]

I'm in the process of finishing up 2 carraige doors for my shop. They are 48in wide by 8 ft tall made from 8/4 poplar. I drew up a ton of designs trying to avoid buying the 200$ freud entry door cope and stick set but eventually bit the bullet and did so. Worth every penny IMO and makes the process much easier.

PS

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Use Epoxy. And use a penetrating epoxy on exposed end grain at the top and bottom of the door. Use Epoxy for assembly. West 209 is a L-O-N-G open time glue. It's sensitive to squeeze out though. Long open time is handy when assembling doors. They can be hinkey.

Ya might even use epoxy as the coating.

[Brad Shipton]

I agree with Peter and Jamie's comments about hardware and preparing a drawing. These are both very steps that should be included now. I think you might find the door frame will present a few challenges too, well, if you want it to last anyway.

The glulams I purchased were 1.75"x11.875" and I recently was quoted $2 (can)/ft for 1.75"x14" glulams. Since you dont have a jointer I would ask for architectural grade.

Did you know you can buy stave core rails/stiles? They will build to your spec. They are not cheap, but it might be something you want to consider. You can find the suppliers on the woodweb.

As for the door thickness, 2.25" thick is common for the door size you are planning.

Since this is your main entrance door you might want to build a test door to work out the kinks.

Brad

[Tom Adger]

Cliff, as it happens, I am making an entry door for my shop. Exposed to the elements. The frame is 2x4's, with a 2x6 on the side which will have the lockset. The outside will be 1x6 pressure treated, tongue and grooved. All the wood was racked and stickered for several months.
all boards were jointed, and planed to give a final thickness of 1.75". The outside panel of 1x6's will be glued and screwed to the frame. I am concerned about the edges, particularly the 1x6's, which will have end grain exposed at top and bottom. You mentioned a penetrating epoxy. Do you have a particular brand and source in mind? If it matters, after finishing, I will prime and paint the door.

[Peter Quinn]

Jamie, It can be very difficult to glue edge banding precisely flush to the edge of a piece of material over 80+ inches such as a door style. Generally I find it preferable to prepare the edge banding thicker than the piece it is being glued to and flush trim it after the glue dries. I also don't like to put engineered materials through a planer or thickness sander as it tends to disturb the equilibrium of the odd number of layers given it is very difficult to remove equal thickness from each side. It can wind up bowed which defeats one of the principle reasons to use man made materials.

If you will be applying skins to the faces of the LVL's I would think the actual thickness of the cores wouldn't matter as long as the sum of the skins and the core equal your 2 1/4" thickness. Better to adjust the thickness of your veneer skins with your planer than plane the LVL's to a number. If you find the factory surface is not sufficient for a glue bond perhaps roughing them up with a belt sander might help?

As far as panel thickness the doors we make are generally designed with panels that match the thickness of the door, but I don't think this is a requirement and I like the effect of a panel thinner than the door, a sort of shadow or set back approach that adds depth to my eye. I would think 1 1/2" might be a minimum on a door that thick? Not much R value in wood, mostly a security and design concern left up to your judgement.

As far as glue ours are made almost exclusively with tite bond III. It can be VERY difficult to clean the glue squeeze from a M&T door using epoxy. I think PL glue might be preferable as the squeeze is easier to clean once dried, though consider the stain and finish you will be using before choosing an adhesive, as the dried areas of adhesive can negatively affect the finishing process. It will take a lot of blue tape to control the glue squeeze from many adhesives I recommend you try a few simple test joints from glue to finish, sample boards if you will, to see what may work for you and identify any pitfalls before building your actual door. Much cheaper way to learn. In fact many aspects of the project might be well served with small scale samples to test your methods.

Gluing up a full sized door, particularly one as large as you are making, really requires two people or a very specialized bench. Just flipping it over to clean the glue from the other side is difficult. With two people at glue up there is plenty of time to use PVA glue if you are organized, and PVA type 3 is plenty strong enough.