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Thread: Lathe tool sharpening

  1. #1

    Lathe tool sharpening

    Ok, all you experienced turners out there. I am about to celebrate my third anniversary of turning soon.

    I am currently sharpening my tools with a 1725rpm 8" grinder with 46 and 80 grit blue alox wheels. I use the Wolverine system for repeatability and have learned that not all grind angles are the same. I use different grinds for end grain boxes than I use for bowls.

    What I am curious about is what is the advantage to sharpening lathe tools with the Tormek? I read with great interest about Dennis Peacock sharpening what seemed like bucket loads of turning tools for folks at the CSBBQ.

    I would guess that the Tormek edge is much finer, sharper etc. I would presume that this would result in finer scratches and less sanding all things being equal. Is that worth the extra time it takes on the Tormek or am I mistaken about how long it takes? I can sharpen a tool on my grinder pretty quickly.

    Just need info that I might be unaware of. Sell me on the Tormek. It is a large investment. Can I justify it? You tell me what I don't know. Oops, that would take too long...
    Big Mike

    I have done so much with so little for so long I am now qualified to do anything with nothing......

    P.S. If you are interested in plans for any project that I post, just put some money in an envelope and mail it to me and I will keep it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas
    Posts
    13,181
    Michael,

    I sharpened about 41 turning tools while at the BBQ. Many of them never more than once. The great thing I like about the Tormek is it dead on accurate repeatability, NO heat to the steel, fleixibility, the ability to grade the stone from 220 grit to 1,000 grit "on the fly" and then back to 220 Grit.....then flip the tool over to the leather power strop with a little honing compound and voila, a super sharp tool.!! One thing I have noticed about using a turning tool sharpened on the grinder and using one sharpened on the Tormek. The sharpness lasts longer on the edge sharpened on the Tormek. Don't ask me why, I just know that the sharp edge lasts longer coming from the Tormek.

    I have used both...grinder and Tormek....and I keep going back to the Tormek. It's just too simple and you don't have to finess with it.....You can look away, talk to someone and all the while....stick your hand in the Tormek and all you get is a wet, cool hand.!!

    Once you use a Tormek for a day or so....your grinder will get jealous!!!
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  3. #3
    I also believe tools stay sharp longer on the Tormek. Plus, if you learn to use the Instant Replication method (simple, see the link below), going back to touch up an edge is very fast.
    Between the fine state of the stone wheel and the leather hone you can get a mirror finish on the edge and bevel that absolutely polishes the wood.
    I know guys say it takes too long but I still don't know why it does for them. Short of regrinding the whole tool to a different profile, it's very fast, repeatable and makes ultra precise edges.

    http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/tormekrevu.html

    http://www.newwoodworker.com/trmkhrmeth.html
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas
    Posts
    13,181
    Oh yea.....I forgot to mention.....

    The Tormek ain't fast.....90 RPM....so don't expect to hit the "T" with your tool and come off of it in under 5 seconds flat. Ain't gonna happen. Takes me about 30 to 45 seconds to jig up, sharpen, lightly hone and get back to turning. Want speed? Then you'll need to stick to the grinder if you are in that big of a hurry.!!!
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Peshtigo, WI (~50 miles N of Green Bay)
    Posts
    1,403

    Sharpening lathe tools!

    Michael,
    I always come back to a Raffan video (Turning Wood). He was sharpening a skew and totally screwed it up. His next attempt resulted in, "Well, it's not very good but I know that it will cut well.". He was using 60 and 80 grit gray wheels.

    I have never been convinced that a razor sharp tool for the lathe is reason enough for me to invest in the Tormek System. There is no question that it is a great system but the doubt presents itself in terms of, "How much is too much?" This is especially true if I don't want to spend the extra time that the Tormek System requires.

    With the Wolverine system, I can "touch up" a radiused or straight skew , a parting tool, a scraper or a roughing gouge in one or two quick passes. The time spent is 5-10 seconds. The key is LIGHT pressure! You may also wish to add a 100 or even a 120 grit wheel to your 1725 RPM grinder.

    Believe me, I will be the last person on this forum to criticize the Tormek System (except for the cost). I'm just not convinced that it will add to my lathe addiction.

    Don't be upset with me if I am wrong. I don't have a Tormek System to "sharpen" my intellect.

    Dale T.
    I am so busy REMAKING my projects that I don't have time to make them the FIRST time!

  6. #6
    tormek. get it, don't wait. trust dennis and me. worth every penny, you can get all the jigs and be the goto guy in your neighborhood and sharpen knives, scissirs and other stuff for neighbors. get some money back that way.

    sascha

  7. #7
    I also have watched (studied is more like it) Richard Raffan and have seen his near-instant sharpening on a high-speed wheel. Keep in mind that Raffan has lots of years as a production turner and has developed skills with the tools most of us can only hope for. For most of us, a consistently sharpened tool that cuts the same way every time is a great help to developing our own skills. Where Raffan can compensate for a changing bevel angle, perhaps automaticially, I can't.
    Since I got the Tormek I have noticed that my tool control is much better and getting more precise all the time. I feel that is at least in part to the tool being the same after every sharpening.
    Now leave me alone, I have to go practice. That Raffan guy is still WAY faster than I'll ever be!
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  8. #8
    Dale, replace which stone with a 100 or 120 grit and why? I would assume to get a finer finish. Are there specific tools that benefit from a finer grind? I based my grit choices on what I read in Ernie Conover's book. I have thought about what you Tormek guys said about it producing a sharper finish that lasts longer. Probably that is the case because the grind is less "toothy". It only makes sense that the "toothed" grind resulting from a coarse stone would result in uneven wear and faster dulling.
    Big Mike

    I have done so much with so little for so long I am now qualified to do anything with nothing......

    P.S. If you are interested in plans for any project that I post, just put some money in an envelope and mail it to me and I will keep it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (The Sun and Fun Capital of The South)
    Posts
    3,203
    Mike,

    I agree with the suggestion of using 80/120 grit wheels if you continue using a grinder and the Wolverine set-up. As stated the Tormek is a little slow for most of us (and too expensive for some of us ) . I use 120 grit wheel to touch up my chisels in just a few seconds.
    "If you believe in yourself and have dedication and pride - and never quit, you'll be a winner. The price of victory is high - but so are the rewards" - - Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant
    Ken Salisbury Passed away on May 1st, 2008 and will forever be in our hearts.

  10. #10
    I have the Tormek and the Wolverine. I tend to use the Wolverine more in the winter because I don't like having a cracked Tormek stone. Anyhow, for gouge work they're about the same. For getting your skew to take very fine shavings (like using a scraping cut) the Tormek is much better than using the Wolverine. As for time, it takes about the same amount of time to touch up an edge on the Tormek as it does on the Wolverine. I find that the edge lasts a bit longer off of the Tormek.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Appleton, WA
    Posts
    148

    Sharpening lathe tools

    Well I guess I am way off base here, I have never used a grinder to sharpen any of my lathe tools and I have been turning since 1996. I always use sandpaper on a flat surface. Depending, sometimes I use 150 grit, sometimes 220 grit and sometimes 320 grit and sometimes all three. Maybe I am missing something good here by not using a grinding system. Works for me. Rod in Appleton, WA
    Rod

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    I happen to think the Tormek is a wonderful sharpening device...for flat tools, especially those that are heat sensitive, such as chisels and plane irons. I am also of the school that believes that sharpening turning tools is generally more efficient with a "regular" grinder. These items need to be sharpened frequently...sometimes every minute or so on difficult or abrasive materials. I would never have the patience to use the Tormek for that!! You may be able to get a finer edge on that system and it may (or may not) stay sharper (that's a pretty subjective thing unless you're examining the edges microscopially), but for turning, speed is golden when it comes to sharpening. IMHO, of course, and you know how much I received in renumeration for it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Olathe, Kansas (Kansas City)
    Posts
    1,550
    Price has always been my concern with the "T", but some day it will find it's way into my shop. Totday I have a grinder and also the Woodcraft slow wet grinder. They give me good edges, but the ones Dennis did for me are really nice on my turning tools. I often use hand diamond stones to touch up during a turning, if it gets really dull then I jump back to the grinder.
    Scott C. in KC
    Befco Designs

  14. #14
    Thanks everyone for all of the feedback. Obviously there are some advantages and disadvantages to all systems. I need to have some personal experience with the Tormek before I can justify the expense. I am very interested in it for sharpening my handplanes and chisels. Currently I use ceramic waterstones and wet/dry paper for that. I sharpen my skew chisels on a 12" disc sander and hone on 1200 grit diamond- sharp, sharp, sharp! Dennis, you are always welcome to come to NC and give me a demo. I promise not to abuse you like those mean boys at the BBQ. I was afraid they were just trying to keep you away from the eats.
    Big Mike

    I have done so much with so little for so long I am now qualified to do anything with nothing......

    P.S. If you are interested in plans for any project that I post, just put some money in an envelope and mail it to me and I will keep it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    15,332
    There is another sharpening system out there that you may wish to look at. It is pretty new but pretty cool. I saw it demo'ed at the Woodshow in Sacramento in May.

    Lap-Sharp: www.woodartistry.com
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

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