Dovetail Saws!

[Rick Erickson]

Thanks Pedder, I didn't catch that or even know there was a difference.

John, I think you will be pleased. If you have a local woodcraft around you may find it there and save the cost / time in shipping. BTW: He also has a xcut saw (although it isn't on his site yet). Did you check out the video on his site? It illustrates the finer points of the saw.

[george wilson]

Derek,My thin saws have just enough set to saw without binding. I haven't measured it. They saw a kerf about the width of a sharp pencil line drawn with a #2 pencil,if that helps any. I have also a few older straight handle German made saws that are about .015" also. They are probably from the 1950's or 60's. I like my fine saws a lot.

We made repros of a Dalaway 18th.C. dovetail for the shops in the museum. The Cabinet maker's shop,and Mack Headley prized them highly. They were,as was the original,.015" thick,like my Groves dovetail.

[David Gendron]

IMO LV is as good or better finished than LN....

[David Gendron]

Like one and others said, It all come down to what is feels good to you! Andrew Lunn Saws, are said to be THE BEST DT saw ever made by every body who had the chance to try them! Is it gona make you a better sawer? I use to XC ski to a fairly hight level and I had all the best gear one would want, the same gear as the top athlets in the world... That that made me a faster skier? NO, I was just as fast as I could be! So any saw, you choose to buy, as long as it is a good saw, from reputable saw maker, and practice a lot with it you will do great!!

[Jim Koepke]

Like one and others said, It all come down to what is feels good to you! Andrew Lunn Saws, are said to be THE BEST DT saw ever made by every body who had the chance to try them! Is it gona make you a better sawer? I use to XC ski to a fairly hight level and I had all the best gear one would want, the same gear as the top athlets in the world... That that made me a faster skier? NO, I was just as fast as I could be! So any saw, you choose to buy, as long as it is a good saw, from reputable saw maker, and practice a lot with it you will do great!!

I think a lot of people sell themselves short. With just a little practice to go on and inspiration from others I have been able to sharpen a few saws and even cut new teeth in one.

I have no quibble with a quality modern saw other than its price. By doing my own, I am learning a lot about the different aspects of ppi, rake and fleam in saw sharpening and how to vary them to make saws cut more to my liking.

As wonderfully as the premium saws can cut, my taste might be for one that is not as aggressive or maybe more so.

I think someone mentioned a saw cut too slow for them at 20 ppi. Smaller teeth will cut slower but can leave a smoother cut.

Less set and thinner saw plates mean a thinner and possibly smoother kerf.

I still think most important is if it feels good enough in use to make you want to find reasons to use it.

Maybe I should copyright that line.

jim

[Jack Camillo]

Nice parking lot for your saws, Sean.
jack

[David Gendron]

+1 on Sean till! note to my self... I have to make one for my saws!!!

[Scott Stafford]

If you are choosing amongst the top brands, go with the one that fits your hand best and is most comfortable. Chances are you'll be the most accurate with this choice.

Scott in Montana

[David Keller NC]

You guys have talked me into trying out Cosman's dovetail saw. I beileve I will go to Wenzloff for a crosscut/carcass saw. There's just something about the Lee Valley's that I just can't bring myself to ordering it, I'm afraid. I wish there was a store around here that I could just see one in person. That might change my mind.

Thanks for all the help.

John - Not sure if you're still reading this thread, but there's a point about this that might help allieviate the "paralysis by analysis" aspect that all of these sawmakers have endgendered in us tool pigs in the last 3 years:

I have 5 saws that can be called dovetail saws (i.e., they have a back, they're filed rip, and they're less than 10" long). 3 are new, high-quality but not high-end saws - none of the mentioned sawmakers sell high end saws with the possible exception of Andrew Lunn's original model. All of these saws are extraordinarily cheap for what they are, which is a dovetail saw manufactured to the standards of late 18th through the 19th centuries. The "reasonable" saws that are new aren't really saws - they are saw shaped objects made by Crown, Pax, Lynx and others that are not acceptable. As has been mentioned, they have way too much set, chunky, thick handles that have sharp corners specifically designed to wear blisters in your hand after a few cuts, and their balance is way off.

Lee Valley is the sole exception - they do make a functional, if not exactly traditional, saw that is a good performer.

The point of this reply, however, is to suggest that whatever saw you choose from the above lists will be an entirely satisfactory, well-loved tool after you practice with it. Of those 5 saws that I mentioned, every one of them behaves and feels a little differently, and for that reason I stick with a favorite that was made by Drabble and Sanderson around the turn of the 20th century. But the reason I like this saw over the new ones really doesn't have anything to do with the way they cut - it's because the brass back on the Drabble and Sanderson is extraordinarily thick and heavy, and my preference as a sawyer is to let the weight of the saw do all of the work.

But before this, I was very proficient with my original L-N "Independence" dovetail saw - and there is nothing wrong with it. So whatever you choose, you will have gotten the "best" saw, because none of them can be "best" until it breaks you in.

[John Coloccia]

Funny you should post that. I ended up getting my hands on a LV saw and decided that I really did like it, so I ordered their set of 3 saws.

I hear what you're saying about the practice. Right now I just use an old...uhm....Garlick (does that sound right?) gent's saw. The thing is pretty unimpressive and flimsy, and it wasn't much better the first day I bought it. Still, though, I can get some nice cuts out of it now that I'm used to it. Oh how I struggled with it at first, though. I'm actually on my second one, in fact. It's no better than the first, but I really like it for fine work in thin stock. So not a bad saw, but as I said it's not very impressive. For $15 it's pretty darn nice, though

Anyhow, the analysis by paralysis comment is dead on in this case. It's funny because I'm normally the one that quickly makes up his mind and drives forward. I don't know why I was hemming and hawing so much over a stupid saw.

[Mark Roderick]

Write "Lie-Nielsen," "Lee Valley," and "Rob Cosman" on a dart board, throw a dart blind, and buy the one you hit. You'll be very happy.

My own experience was using a Freud for years and being pretty unhappy, buying a Lie-Nielsen, taking it out of the box, setting up a test piece of wood, and soon exclaiming "So THAT's how you cut dovetails!"

A great saw makes that much difference, especially to the amateur. The professional can probably cut dovetails with a broom handle.

Good luck.

[Pete Paris]

I am in the same boat and have a list of saw sites. I wonder about the thin .020 thickness compared to the .022 thickness

Lee Valley Veritas dovetail saw
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=64007&cat=1,42884
Wenzloff & Sons at Lee Valley dovetail saw
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57113&cat=1,42884,57152
Wenzloff & Sons at the Best Things the Kenyon style
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/wenzloff_saws.htm
Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1237
Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw sold by Craftsman Studio (free shipping over $75) This store also sells the Veritas saw, but it is <$75.
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A500.htm
Gramercy dovetail saw from Tools for Working Wood
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Produ ct_Code=GT-DSAW9.XX&Category_Code=TS

Adria dovetail saw
http://www.adriatools.com/handsaw/dovetail_saw.html
Eccentric Tools dovetail Saw
http://www.eccentricwoodcraft.com/page3_toolworks.html
Spehar Tools dovetail saw
http://spehar-toolworks.com/dovetailsaws.html
Medallion Toolworks dovetail saw
http://www.medalliontools.com/OurDovetailSaws.html
Thomas Flynn & Co. makers of Pax, Lynx, Roberts & Lee, and Crown dovetail saws
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Pax_Range.html
Adam Cherubini dovetail saw
http://www.adamcherubini.com/Dovetail_Saws.html
There are also other saw makers, but they don’t specifically advertise a dovetail saw. The one that comes to mind is Technoprimitives.
Bad Axe Toolworks (Technoprimitives)
http://www.technoprimitives.com/bad_axe_tool_works_saws

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#8
Today, 1:26 AM

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I am in the same boat and have a list of saw sites. I wonder about the thin .020 thickness compared to the .022 thickness

The chances of your noticing the difference between 0.020" and 0.022" is minimal. I have a bunch of backsaws with thicknesses ranging from 0.040" (a hardware store special) but usually hovering around 0.025" and 0.020" for the two finest. Do I notice this? No. Can I even detect this without a micrometer? No. The set varies and matters much more to me, and the smallest amount of set I've ever heard of someone deliberately introducing is on the order of 0.006" total (counting both sides). The burr left by sharpening is only a little smaller than that.

[derek sikes]

I don't regret spending the extra money on a modern "high-end" dovetail saw; my accuracy has drastically improved and I enjoy the process more. I'm working on learning to set and sharpen myself with antique saws which is another process I enjoy, but in the meantime it's nice to have a tool that works out of the box.

[george wilson]

One of our creekers has PM'ed me that he makes .015" saws. I am glad to hear that. My computer has been down for some days needing a new hard drive.