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Thread: Looking for the best in shop table saw I can buy. I only want to buy one saw.

  1. #1

    Looking for the best in shop table saw I can buy. I only want to buy one saw.

    I run a shop building guitars. I need a very accurate table saw. I assume the fence is going to be as much a part of this as the saw.

    I will not need to cart the saw around. It will be in shop.

    I'd like to use it as a jointer. I'm guessing this means that the fence must be dead straight.

    I checked out a saw with a Biesemeyer Fence tonight and I noticed the fence had a board screwed to the fence (Blade side) and laminate to cover the screws. The fence was probably .010" - .020" from straight in places. We ripped a few boards and of course the joints were not good enough for glue.

    So that leads me to my question. Can the fence be fixed to dead straight and how hard is it?

    I have a few saws I'm considering and I'd like to add a few more to the list if I should. I'm new and don't know much.

    I do know I want VERY accurate tools. I have an old DeWalt Radial Arm Saw and it is one of the best. It's taught me that great build quality in a tool makes life much easier in wood working.

    So.... I only want to buy one saw for the next 20 years. I don't need to cart it around. I run a shop.

    I am not concerned as much about how much (of course cost hurts but I'm more concerned with the quality of the cut).

    What should I buy?

    So far I've considered the following:
    -PM 65
    -PM 66
    -Delta Unisaw
    -Ridgid
    -Bosch (the one that collapses)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Nick - The PM66 and the Unisaw are considered top notch industrial cabinet saws....(not sure why've you've included the Bosch on your list if you don't need portability). Fence straightness can vary from model to model even if it's the same model...you may need to hand select your fence. The laminated faces of the Biesemeyer fence are harder to shim because the faces can't be easily removed, but they tend to be more likely to be flat than the UHMW plastic faces, which are easy to remove. The new PM2000, Saw Stop, and General 650 are also top models. For less money, you may find that something like a Grizzly G1023SL or a G0690 are suitable too.

    You mention that you want to use the saw as a jointer. You can edge joint with the TS but that doesn't do anything to flatten the faces, which is a critical step to getting an adjacent edge 90° to the face.
    Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern California
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    449
    Love my SawStop, but I've never used any other cabinet saw.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by scott spencer View Post
    Nick - The PM66 and the Unisaw are considered top notch industrial cabinet saws....(not sure why've you've included the Bosch on your list if you don't need portability). Fence straightness can vary from model to model even if it's the same model...you may need to hand select your fence. The laminated faces of the Biesemeyer fence are harder to shim because the faces can't be easily removed, but they tend to be more likely to be flat than the UHMW plastic faces, which are easy to remove. The new PM2000, Saw Stop, and General 650 are also top models. For less money, you may find that something like a Grizzly G1023SL or a G0690 are suitable too.

    You mention that you want to use the saw as a jointer. You can edge joint with the TS but that doesn't do anything to flatten the faces, which is a critical step to getting an adjacent edge 90° to the face.

    The only reason I included the Bosch is that my neighbor had one and it seemed like a good saw. Then I read on this forum tonight that a decent portable saw and a very good fence can be just as good as a cabinet saw. Not sure if that's true. I'm still fairly green to buying tools

  5. #5
    The PM66 and the Unisaw are the only ones on your short list I would consider. But if you go with the uni, I would dump the Biesemeyer fence in favor of the Delta unifence. OK... I can hear the accusations of blasphemy but I just think the unifence is superior for a number of reasons. For one thing you can slide the fence rail forward and back which is a very useful feature. The fence rail is aluminum which means that it is much more likely to remain flat. Even if it's not perfectly flat, you can easily make it so by lapping it (or getting it lapped by a machine shop). You can lay the fence rail on it's side when you need a low profile fence. It's also easier to attach things to the unifence (by drilling a coiuple of screw holes in it).

    As to cutting glue ready edges on any table saw (assuming that the saw and fence are dialed in correctly), that is going to depend much more on your choice of blade than on your choice of saw. And you must assume that any wood you rip is going to stay straight when it's cut... no guarantees there....
    David DeCristoforo

  6. #6
    Personally I would go with the Unisaw and Unifence. I've had mine for almost 30 years and it is still bang on. As for a really accurate tool check out the Incra Ls Positioner And Wonder Fence. Ive had one for only a couple of months and am still pretty green as to its capabilities but so far it is very impressive. I use it on a router table with the Porter Cable Speedtronic but you can also use it as a TS fence.This thing approaches the same tolerances that machinists strive for. Dadoes, rabbets & jointing are quick and easy and easily repeatable. Seems like a perfect tool for a guitar builder.

    I wonder if I can get some free stuff from Incra after this testimonial?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    If you are building guitars, I would think a portable would not be the best choice considering the 8/4 stock you may need to process regularly. You didn't mention acoustic or electric? Are you making your own necks?

    I find it easier to replace the fence plates on the powermatic accu-fence than the biesmeyer fences. I have never seen a TS as a replacement for a jointer in any event. A few passes with a jointer plane would serve to clean up any saw marks if a jointer is not available.

    Don't underestimate the quality of the blade in your equation either. Some leave better ripped edge than others.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    If you are building guitars, I would think a portable would not be the best choice considering the 8/4 stock you may need to process regularly. You didn't mention acoustic or electric? Are you making your own necks?

    I find it easier to replace the fence plates on the powermatic accu-fence than the biesmeyer fences. I have never seen a TS as a replacement for a jointer in any event. A few passes with a jointer plane would serve to clean up any saw marks if a jointer is not available.

    Don't underestimate the quality of the blade in your equation either. Some leave better ripped edge than others.
    Yep, 8/4 is what I'm cutting and it's all electrics. I have a DeWalt Radial that I've ripped this with and using a Forrest WWI Mr. Sawdust blade, I'm getting cut quality that's better than my jointer. But it's not a good joint because it's not dead straight. I'm getting a bow in the middle of the cuts because my table's fence edge isn't exact dead straight. I think if that were, it'd do better.

    Quote Originally Posted by David DeCristoforo View Post
    The PM66 and the Unisaw are the only ones on your short list I would consider. But if you go with the uni, I would dump the Biesemeyer fence in favor of the Delta unifence. OK... I can hear the accusations of blasphemy but I just think the unifence is superior for a number of reasons. For one thing you can slide the fence rail forward and back which is a very useful feature. The fence rail is aluminum which means that it is much more likely to remain flat. Even if it's not perfectly flat, you can easily make it so by lapping it (or getting it lapped by a machine shop). You can lay the fence rail on it's side when you need a low profile fence. It's also easier to attach things to the unifence (by drilling a coiuple of screw holes in it).

    As to cutting glue ready edges on any table saw (assuming that the saw and fence are dialed in correctly), that is going to depend much more on your choice of blade than on your choice of saw. And you must assume that any wood you rip is going to stay straight when it's cut... no guarantees there....
    100% agree on the blade. I expect to spend around $100-$120 on a blade. As far as the fence, Aluminum does seem like a better choice than the T-Square Biesemeyer's plastic fence. I'd much rather have a machined fence than a couple of stick on pieces of acrylic. You're point is well taken.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    I own a Sawstop Contractor saw with cast iron side wing, and 52" extension, as well as a Jet Exacta cabinet saw. The jet sits in the back of my shop disconnected since it doesn't compare to the SS.

    I have worked with the Sawstop Industrial, Unisaw, two Powermatics, Felder, Old Rockwell, Ulmia, you name it. Of course the Felder is probably the best of the above, with exception to the safety features of the Sawstop. However the Sawstops I have worked with are a league above any other western cabinet saw I have used.

    I have never had a problem with a Biesemeyer fence. I have never had an issue cutting a glue line rip on any of the saws I have worked with with this fence system.

    I would highly recommend looking at the Sawstop. Not only for the safty features, that go beyond just the brake, but for the fact they have engineered a very good saw to compete in a market where everybody allready had a dream saw that costs less.
    Last edited by Michael Schwartz; 11-14-2009 at 11:15 PM.
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  10. #10
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    1 saw? Sawstop industrial 5 horse. Very stable saw. The trunion and motor alone weighs more than a lot of saws. You can cut 8/4 no problem and get dead straight cuts. The stock Bies fence is fine. The only problem I could see is you need to find a 8 or 10" fret slotting blade. The 5 or 6 inch fret blades will not run in the SS. If you find one, plese let me know...

    If you want very repeatable cuts, you can get the INCRA fence. But you can add that to any TS.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    If you want accuracy you might want to consider a used Oliver, Northfield or Tanny they have cost iron fences & made to last.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Nick, Like David said, the only saws to consider on your list is the PM66 and Unisaw. I would only consider a quality cabinet saw. The Unisaw fence is a very good fence. I have a PM66 with the accu-fence. I replaced the side boards on my fence, and it is dead straight, flat and everything else... You will find not all wood is stable, and after you cut with a straight fence the wood will warp. Any of the major fences mentioned are good, and can be made straight relatively easy.

    Sam

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    I'm actually surprised to see the Bosch and Ridgid on the list with the likes of the PM66 and Unisaw. I personally would stay from the PM65. I think it is harder to get parts for and if I recall I believe it has some less desirable design features. Maybe you need to get a cabinet saw and put an INCRA fence on it.

  14. #14
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    I am surprised nobody has suggested a hammer or Mini-Max saw.. The slider makes edge jointing a breeze.. super accurate and extremely well made..

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Location
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    i use a PM66, fence that game with it was too long (10 feet) so replaced with a vega fence, which also uses an aluminum rail, but doesn't have any sort of face cover built into the design, just bare metal, the screws that mount it to the arm/cam are on the top.

    got it all set up within 2 thousandths a couple of years ago when i got it and it's still that accurate right now. use it every day.

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