Coming GCSS Tool Reviews.....PICS

[Dennis Peacock]

Good afternoon everyone.

I have some good news. Festool cooperated with me, thanks to Uncle Bob Marino, to allow me to perform an evaluation of the Festool GCSS. I am currently outlining how to best evaluate each GCSS:

1. The Festool Saw and GuideRail System
2. The Eurekazone GuideRail with my own Circular Saw

I have a complete Festool "System" here now and finished unpacking it this afternoon. I have the Circular Saw, short and LONG GuideRails and the CT 22E Vac.

I am working on a set of "test rules" that will best suit the testing of both systems. I'm doing the Festool setup now because Festool agreed to send me the items necessary to evaluate it and enough time to perform and post my evaluation of the Festool GCSS. This will allow me proper time to evaluate the Eurekazone GRS while at the Dallas BBQ this month. Honestly, I didn't feel "comfortable" evaluating BOTH setups at the BBQ as proceedure, steps and tests could "waiver" and not be considered equal and fair to both systems.

My plan is to "fairly" and "honestly" evaluate each GCSS and post my findings. I will have the Festool eval done within the next 2 weeks due to JOB workloads, family needs, and projects I have pressing in my shop for people that I have committed to.

I want YOUR input to help me build a list of "tests" for each system fairly and then I will post my eval of the saw and vac seperately from the GuideRail Systems of Festool and Eurekazone.

<b>This is NOT to stir up a fight between members or vendors.!!!!</b> Remember that I'm posting "my" eval of the GCSS's and I am not a part of either vendor nor am I getting paid to do this by either vendor. I'm doing this for my own benefit and to post my findings to the general membership of SMC that are interested in my findings.

Remember, I will not be evaluating the Eurekazone GR setup until the Dallas BBQ.

Here are three pics of the Festools items.

1. The saw.
2. The Vac.
3. Both Long and Short GR's.

[Frank Pellow]

That's great Dennis. I am happy that finally an impartial person with good woodworking skills is good to compare these two systems.

[Betsy Yocum]

Dennis - I think that is the same vac I used when I took classes this summer at American Sycamore. If it is, and I think it is, the one gripe I had was the attachment for the hose to the sander was not tight enough and it slipped off one to many times for such an expensive piece of equipment. I think they would have been better served to have a clip type system that you have to push on and off. Otherwise it's just a tight fit - like a can in a kuzzie.

I thought it ran very quietly as well. The other thing that's not really a gripe but something they could probably do a better job on is the wheel system - its a bit gangly to move around the shop.

Hope that helps.

Betsy

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dennis, I would stick to the "basics" on the evaluation of each system. Take into consideration that these systems could be used by the seasoned woodworker, and the hobbiest woodworker. By the basics, I mean things like the instruction manuals. How thorough they are in explaining the proper set up and use of each system? Set up time and adjustment. Is one easier to set up and use than the other? The quality of the components. Are they built to last, and hold up to the rigors of professional use, and the occasional abuse they may be subjected to by the hobbiest woodworker? (You know what I mean.........we all screw things up occasionally, don't we?) Other than that, just the "inquiring minds want to know" things. How good to they work? Do they do what they are advertised to do? Are they easy to use? Are the results what YOU expect? Are they accurate? I look forward to seeing an objective, unbiased comparison of each system, and the differences that are unique to each system as well. I know you will be fair Dennis..............it may not make everyone happy, but comparisons rarely do. Good luck!

[Jim Becker]

What Kevin said. Keep "real" use in mind, but also look carefully at cut quality and for any sloppyness in how things fit together as that will greatly affect repeatability, not to mention the aforementioned cut quality! While I'd prefer dust control to also be a part of the test, that would not be a fair comparison with the two systems.

[Frank Pellow]

Dennis, a place to start might be the tasks that Dino lists in the Eurekazone Challenge at his web site. These are:

1. trim a door without splintering.
2. trim and fit a cabinet filler.
3. cross cut a plywood without chipping.
4. trim and fit a finished countertop.
5. straighten rough lumber.
6. trim and fit a refrigerator side panel.
7. trim the frame of a cabinet from 1/8" to 1/16" .
8. make a tapered column.
9. Why not a fluted tapered column.

[Dennis Peacock]

Frank,

Good ideas here...but I don't have spare finished counter tops just laying around waiting to be cut in to 100 little bitty pieces, nor do I have a refrigerator that needs wooden side panels.

We'll stick to the basics and I'll gather what SMC'ers post and what I come up with and will compile the entire list and perform the steps.

[Todd Burch]

Dennis, I'm thinking a variety of woods and wood products. MDF & birch veneer core plywood for the sheet goods. The MDF will let you see the quality of cut and be a good litmus test for dust pickup. Cheap birch plywood will be a good test for chipout on both sides of the cut. Crosscut, rip and diagonal. If the ply is prefinished with a dark stain, chipout is easier to see.

For solid woods, test #2 pine (pitch build-up), cherry or maple (likely to burn) & red oak or poplar, all in crosscut and rip modes.

You should use the same support system for both tests. This could be sawhorses, a 1/2 lap grid of 1X4s, a Multi-function type table, etc.

Todd

[Dennis Peacock]

Todd,

Excellent input!!!! This is the stuff I want ya'll to provide me so that the general membership will also feel that the testing done is fair to both products.

[Steve Clardy]

Festool has the collection system. Eureka doesn't. So--Unless you have a Porter Cable saw with the dust tube, how are you to compare dust collection?
Maybe just forget that part of it?

Steve

[Bob Hovde]

I know you're not doing the tests at the same time, but it might be good to use the same test items (pieces of plywood, boards, etc.) from the first test on the second whenever possible to eliminate at least one variable.

Bob

[Jack Diemer]

I think a second opinion is required for this test. I must caviat that if I do it, it will take about a 15 year evaluation time period.

[John Weber]

Dennis,

I agree with Bob, the test should be done at the same time. To limit the number of variables, try to test both units together. It also seems that blade quality could be an issue. I would consider using the same blade on both saws. Either buying a second Festool blade, using one blade for both saws (changing between test), or buying an aftermarket blade such as a Forrest circular saw blade. Dust collection could be measured, but my guess is the Festool will out perform a PC with dust pickup or other saw. Might just add a note to the Festool "pro" column - "built-in dust collection".

John

[Jim Becker]

I would consider using the same blade on both saws. Either buying a second Festool blade, using one blade for both saws (changing between test), or buying an aftermarket blade such as a Forrest circular saw blade.

Buying "identical" Forrest blades (or similar) and having them bored to fit each saw may be the only way to accomplish this. The ATF55 uses a 20mm bore. The diameter is also different...it's smaller on the Festool from what most circular saws use.This would also means the test is no longer "low-cost"...

Perhaps the best way will be to use a blade on the non-Festool saw that is the same kerf width and with a similar tooth grind/configuration to the Festool blade.

[John Weber]

Jim,

My guess is a blade as a lot to do with the end result, so it would be important to address. Maybe our buddy at Forrest, or 3DSawBlades (I think that was the name) from the Forrest threads the last 6 weeks, might be willing to step up and help Dennis out. I think it's to important to overlook. Kind of like testing cabinet saws with the OEM blade.

John