cyclone (is it worth it)

[Paul Mathers]

I have a chance to buy a dustkop 3hp cyclone $300 model #2030-D1 it is 3 phase but I can buy a new motor few hundred I already have HF dc but I would like a little more suck and the ease of emptying a drum is it worth buying cyclone kit on ebay changing dc over to a cyclone about $150 I vent outside not sure if I will add any cfm (will I notice the difference) or should I switch the one I have to a wynn pleated filter I have a small shop 20x20 with 7 gates Thanks for your help

[David Hostetler]

Never heard of Dustkop. However looking at their web site, the machines seem to have some drawbacks. Specifically...

#1. They are HUGE. 25" w x 25" d x 105" tall. Meaning that collector is 8' 8" from bottom to top. Do you have enough ceiling in your 20x20 shop for that?

#2. What is it going to cost to change over motors to get single phase power? Usually not worth it.

Not sure which HF DC you are using, but let's assume the #97869. You can improve airflow / suction through your DC system by eliminating as many bends, ribbed hose, and neck downs as possible. Keep your runs as short as possible as well.

The HF DC is pretty useful when set up right. A lot of users replace the 5" hose between the impeller and inlet ring with 5" stove pipe adjustable elbows. It's called the "Stovepipe Mod", and it helps smooth out the air flow.

A Thien trash can separator will get your barrel to empty instead of the cursed bag handled right away...

One thing several users have done to the HF DC is to upsize the port from 5" to 6" by building an MDF / PVC faceplate / port on the DC itself to allow connection to a 6" main trunk. You might want to try that... (Branch from 6" to 4" with a wye just before the blast gates).

[glenn bradley]

Cyclones impede airflow so your bagger will generally move more air for a given impeller/HP size. The cyclone generally returns a large volume of cleaner air via the filters and the cyclone pre-separation.

Since you vent outside, if your only complaint is the emptying process, the bag can be made easier to handle. I had a seam stitched around the metal strap on mine so it is now very easy to remove and replace. I put a yard bag inside the lower bag as I have increased the upper bag via an American Fabric Filter unit and the solid lower bag ups my performance.

I would think venting unrestricted to the outside would allow you a solid lower bag. I'll take some pics of my secondary unit when I get home. Maybe that will give you some ideas(?).

[Leigh Betsch]

I'm in the process of replacing a Dust Kop cyclone with a Clear Vue. My Dust Kop was designed for metal grinding dust and not a real efficient for wood dust. It also is a push through design which means the air goes thru the fan before the cyclone separator. I was always worried about picking up a piece of metal, sparking in the fan and starting a fire in the duct bin. With the pull thru cyclones the separation takes place before the fans so any metal would not go thru the fan. I would pass if it is designed for metal grinding dust. But it does pull a lot of air, especially since I added a Delta 1 1/2 hp motor/fan unit to also pull thru the cyclone!

[Alan Schaffter]

I'm in the process of replacing a Dust Kop cyclone with a Clear Vue. My Dust Kop was designed for metal grinding dust and not a real efficient for wood dust. It also is a push through design which means the air goes thru the fan before the cyclone separator. I was always worried about picking up a piece of metal, sparking in the fan and starting a fire in the duct bin. With the pull thru cyclones the separation takes place before the fans so any metal would not go thru the fan. I would pass if it is designed for metal grinding dust. But it does pull a lot of air, especially since I added a Delta 1 1/2 hp motor/fan unit to also pull thru the cyclone!

Leigh- I have been running a push-through cyclone (first a modified WoodMag then a Pentz) for over 8 years- and never had a problem with sparking on my 14" steel impeller- I do a fair amount of metal tinkering so am always sucking up nuts, bolts and pieces of metal. The Dust Kop is probably not a good choice for wood, but a push-through has great advantages- the motor doesn't need to be on top and it doesn't need a solid dust drum. I attach a trash bag to the bottom of the cyclone. When full I remove the band, tie it off and carry it to the curb- no messing with emptying a full barrel.

Old push-through cyclone:



New push-through cyclone:

[Leigh Betsch]

Nice looking set up. I never knew that you don't need a solid barrel for a dust bin with a push thru. My Dust Kop was a bit underpowered, untill I added the Delta pull thru unit on top of the cyclone also. I guess I just always wanted a Clear Vue unit so finally I bought one and plan to move the Dust Kop over to the metal shop side.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Wouldn't do without one. Main can collects most stuff, and the can under the filter bag needs to be emptied rarely.

One advantage of cyclone / 2-stage is that nothing can hit the impellor (read: nails, blocks, etc), so you can use it as floor sweep as well. The pull-thru style that is - not the push-thru.

[Alan Schaffter]

Wouldn't do without one. Main can collects most stuff, and the can under the filter bag needs to be emptied rarely.

One advantage of cyclone / 2-stage is that nothing can hit the impellor (read: nails, blocks, etc), so you can use it as floor sweep as well. The pull-thru style that is - not the push-thru.

NOT TRUE! Please read my post above. If you have a steel impeller you can use a push-through system however you want (though I would think twice about using a ClearVue that way). I've sucked up MANY, MANY nuts, bolts, pieces of metal, and even a tape measure, with no problems- over almost 10 years!!!!

I would like to remind everyone who is worried about this- ALL, ABSOLUTELY EVERY single-stage, bag-type DC on the market pulls chips, dust, debris, INCLUDING METAL, through the blower fan impeller first, before dumping it into the bag!!!! That is how the air flows through a push-through cyclone system as well- the only difference is that the cyclone is on the discharge side of the blower. Think about it!

[Alan Schaffter]

Wouldn't do without one. Main can collects most stuff, and the can under the filter bag needs to be emptied rarely.

What kind of system are you using? The fact that you must empty the can under the filter bag at all says that your cyclone is not separating the dust very effectively. If enough dust is reaching the filter stack such that it fills the can, then a fair amount is also becoming impacted in your filter pleats if you have a cartridge filter. Much if it is so fine you can't see it but it reduces flow, reduces the amount of dust picked up at the source, reduces the velocity and separation in the cyclone, etc.- it is a vicious cycle. You might want to consider discharging outside instead of through a filter stack. Have you overfilled your dust bin, that causes a back-up and forces dust into the filter(s)- that can have a major and lasting impact on cartridge filter(s). Filters almost never recover from that, and if they do, because you either beat the heck out of them or hit them with tons of high pressure air to remove the dust, they can be easily damaged to the point where you significantly reduce its ability to stop the fine (health hazardous) particles.

[Paul Mathers]

thanks for advice think I will upgrade to a pleated filter and call it a day

[Alan Schaffter]

thanks for advice think I will upgrade to a pleated filter and call it a day

Paul, you are wasting your money on a pleated filter unless you have some decent pre-separation. If you don't, you'll clog that filter in a heatbeat. Remember, all dust but the very heavy chips will want to go where the air goes, and that is up into and out of the filter.

[Paul Mathers]

I wasnt sure if I should get one I read a couple other post tthat said the filter made a notable difference in suction

[Alan Schaffter]

I wasnt sure if I should get one I read a couple other post that said the filter made a notable difference in suction

Initially yes, but like all bag-style DC's, without some type of pre-separator (cylcone or otherwise) they will clog, then suction drops off. I know it is hard to accept. My best recommendation and the cheapest is to build or buy a cyclone or other separator and vent outside, forget the filter. Without pre-separation, you quickly damage the filter by cleaning it.

[Scott T Smith]

Alan's advice is spot on. I had an inexpensive Grizzly system (non cyclone) in my old shop, with the Wynn filter. It was better than stock, but still clogged the pores on the filter.

The cyclone is much superior.

If you do stick with a non-cyclone, be sure to get a very good pre-separator. In fact, I would recommend the pre-separator first, as you will get much more improvement from that than the pleated filter. You can even build it yourself.

[Phil Thien]

Paul,

Consider doing a SMC search and/or google for "Thien baffle." You can add this to your DC's ring and get the separation you need to keep the filter clean. Maybe not as clean as a good cyclone, but absolutely clean enough for part-time shops.