Smooth Planing Scratches

[Walter Cleeson]

I am about at the end of my rope with this. I have been experimenting with my fairly recently acquired stash of Stanley planes. I have a #3, #4 and #5. I have lapped the soles, tuned as best I can and sharpened the blades. I have replaced the blades with Hocks.

Most of my practice has been on soft (cheap!) big box wood. I have watched and purchased videos on using and tuning planes. I have not had any personal hands-on instruction, training or even observation.

With all the being said, nothing I have tried has eliminated the predictable occurrence of scratches when I perform what should be the smoothing of a surface. It doesn't matter how thin the shavings are, what angle I plane at or what plane I use (mostly the #3 and #4).

One of the original blades on the #4 had some pretty significant camber on the corners and even that blade leaves scratches in the surface. They are wavy lines. I can't figure out exactly where they come from.

I call myself checking the depth of the blade for consistency and I am pretty sure the soles are flat.

I am out of ideas. I don't want to spend $200 - $300 on a new e LV or LN and still wind up with the same problems. If it's me and my lack of talent (highly likely!), no tool is going to help.

Is there anything I am missing? Is it time to ebay the whole lot of them and go back to sanding? I really enjoy planing and producing shavings. But the end result is less than satisfying.

Thanks.

-Walter

[Richard Magbanua]

any dings or scratches in the soles or the mouths? Can you take a picture of the scratches? Try rubbing the planes over the wood with the blades backed off and see if you still get scratches.

[Randy Klein]

My bet is in the sharpness of your iron. What "grit" do you sharpen to?

[Prashun Patel]

Is your blade laterally adjusted properly? If not, then it can leave 'tracks'. Are you cutting thoughout the width of yr blades - or in one corner?

If the problem is truly scratches - and not tracks, then I also think your blade just isn't honed to a high enough degree. If you get hurried with power sharpening, you can heat up and ruin the temper of the blade, which will cause it to develop a brittle edge. Sometimes it's so bad, you can SEE the brittle edge - even if yr sharpening up through the mirror polish grits. If that happens, you either need to regrind the blade or get a new one... DAMHIKT....

[Walter Cleeson]

any dings or scratches in the soles or the mouths? Can you take a picture of the scratches? Try rubbing the planes over the wood with the blades backed off and see if you still get scratches.

Richard, I had that same thought. I did back off the blade and ran the plane sole only across the surface. I didn't get any scratches that I could see, but for good measure I did run a file around the edges. It would seem unlikely that all three planes had the same problems, but hey, maybe I screwed them ALL up with my lapping technique (sandpaper on plate glass).

I may try to post some pics.

Thanks.

[Walter Cleeson]

My bet is in the sharpness of your iron. What "grit" do you sharpen to?

Randy I use a WS 3000 and go up to the 6000 paper on it. They shave hair off of my arm and I get pretty thin shavings.

I am curious why the sharpness or lack of would cause scratches? I actually get scratches with a new hock blade that I haven't sharpened.

[Walter Cleeson]

Is your blade laterally adjusted properly? If not, then it can leave 'tracks'. Are you cutting thoughout the width of yr blades - or in one corner?

If the problem is truly scratches - and not tracks, then I also think your blade just isn't honed to a high enough degree. If you get hurried with power sharpening, you can heat up and ruin the temper of the blade, which will cause it to develop a brittle edge. Sometimes it's so bad, you can SEE the brittle edge - even if yr sharpening up through the mirror polish grits. If that happens, you either need to regrind the blade or get a new one... DAMHIKT....

Shawn, they may very well be tracks, not scratches. I don't know the difference.I guess I need to post a pic or two.

I have made a valiant effort to set the depth uniformly with the lateral adjuster. I use the "rub the stick on the bottom to get consistent drag" method before I hit the wood. That's as precise as I know how. I can't say I always get a full width shaving, no matter how much I adjust while planing.

Another thing I have not been able to figure out from watching and reading is how hard I need to press down. I know how to vary the pressure from front to back, but should I really have to bear down for smoothing? After seeing that wise guy Ron Cosman push a plane across a board and get a shaving with just one hand on the tote, I just get more frustrated.

I sharpen to 25 degrees on the WS3000.This happens even on a new blade that I haven't touched, so even if I am overheating the blades when I sharpen, I have taken that out of the equation with a new blade.

[John Keeton]

Is it possible you have the mouth too tight and are piling up wood shards that are marring the surface? Are you waxing the plane?

[Walter Cleeson]

Sorry, but these were the best pictures I could get.

[Walter Cleeson]

Is it possible you have the mouth too tight and are piling up wood shards that are marring the surface? Are you waxing the plane?

John, I have tried closing the mouth down as best I could. It's a pain with an old Bailey with no frog adjustment screw in the back, but I have tried. I do wax the sole.

I will try and watch for the shards. That makes sense. Thanks.

[James Scheffler]

When I first started planing, with pine from one of the big box stores, I thought I was putting scratches in the wood. This had me tearing my hair out. After a while, I figured out that some of the "scratches" were actually natural defects in the wood. They showed up as wavy lines. Sometimes I could turn the board over and see a similar line in about the same place on the other side. Try running your fingernail lightly across the scratch and see if there is an indentation.

Some of the scratches were in fact just scratches. They were typically caused by a little chip getting caught in the mouth or by the lateral adjustment of the blade being a little off.

Good luck figuring this out!

Jim

[Michael Faurot]

Based on what I can discern from the pictures of the planed wood surfaces, I see various sets of parallel lines. Are those the area of complaint? If so, it looks like the same effect one would get with a scratch stock or beading tool, which leads me to think maybe there are some nicks in the blade.

How about posting some pictures of the blade edge, bottom of the plane, areas around the mouth both from the bottom and the top?

[Zach England]

The problem is your planes. Buy a LN and the problem will go away.

Do these occur at the edge of the iron? It could be that the iron has too "sharp" a corner.

I am pretty new to planes too, and I originally started using a WS 3000, but have since relegated it to stropping and I do the actual sharpening/honing with a Veritas honing guide. They have an accessory you can buy for it where the roller is tapered slightly toward the ends making a slightly rounded edge easy to obtain.

Seriously, when I defenestrated the worksharp my plane performance got much better and the sharpening actually now takes less time.

[Jim Koepke]

Walter,

Your profile does not show your location. You may be close to another Creeker who is willing to offer hands on help with this.

A few thoughts and questions on the problem.

Are the scratches being left at the edge of the blade?

When taking a thin shaving, is it one piece from side to side or does it come out in ribbons.

You may have the mouth set too tight. A tight mouth will tend to pick up splinters that will scratch the wood.

One problem with the cheap borg wood is the knots. These will put a nick in a blade just as bad as hitting a staple or nail.

Make sure you are planing with the grain. If you go against the grain, you will get tear out which may look like scratches. Try turning the board around.

My way of setting up a plane works for me. It may work for you. After a blade is sharpened and reinstalled, a piece of scrap wood is held on the bench. The plane is set on the wood and as it is being pushed along the length of the board the blade is slowly lowered. It may take a few attempts at this until a shaving emerges from the mouth. Stop adjusting at this time and see if the shaving is coming from the center or from one side or the other. Adjust the lateral lever as needed. On the Stanley, this is pushed to the side with the thicker shaving. Do not try to judge adjustment by looking at the blade to mouth position. Adjust by the results, the results are telling what is happening.

You should not have to put a lot of pressure on the plane to make shavings. If a lot of pressure is needed, you may have a concave sole.

jim

[Don Naples]

A good way to check the condition of the plane iron edge is to use a loupe (30X is better than 10x for this task). I use a pocket microscope that has an LED light. It is 60x to 100x and costs about $20. It really does a good job of showing flaws in the edges of tools and is very easy to use as the focus can be adjusted so you only have to hold it directly against the tool. You can also see if there are flaws in the plane sole that you can not see by eye. Looking at the size of the scratches in your board, I think these would be easy to see, but obviously not.

If you do have an plane iron edge problem, check the flatness of the back of the iron. I often see irons and chisels with dubbed backs. Use a sheet of fine abrasive placed on a reference flat surface and take a single swipe of the back of the iron. The scratches should reach the cutting edge. Often they don't, which can make sharpening to its sharpest achievable edge more difficult.