A few walnut finishing questions and knot repair

[Charles Green]

I'm almost done building some walnut tables and I am debating the finishes. I have a fair amount of sapwood I need to blend in.

I have read Rob Millard's blog on his recommendation on using orange aniline dye followed by shellac and then a varnish or laquer. That sounds good to me but I was wondering if the orange dye will hide the sapwood or if I will have to use a brown dye also.

If anyone has tried this or has suggestions let me know.

Also, the coffee table top has a knot hole in that I am not trying to hide but I have considered filling with epoxy to make it smooth. If I choose to do this should I fill and then dye it or dye it first?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Scott Holmes]

Using dye on the sap wood is a personal choice... If you want it all a dark walnut color, use a dark walnut dye or medium walnut dye.

I usually spray dye mixed in denatured alcohol, be careful overlaps will show.

Then seal it with a garnet shellac one or 2 light coats, then varnish of your choice.

I like Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top varnish or Waterlox Original varnish on walnut. Both are very hard phenolic resin varnishes made from linseed oil and tung oil respectively.

As for the knot I usually fill them with epoxy... I add a drop of TransTint dye to the epoxy to make it very dark.

[Charles Green]

Using dye on the sap wood is a personal choice... If you want it all a dark walnut color, use a dark walnut dye or medium walnut dye.

I usually spray dye mixed in denatured alcohol, be careful overlaps will show.

Then seal it with a garnet shellac one or 2 light coats, then varnish of your choice.

I like Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top varnish or Waterlox Original varnish on walnut. Both are very hard phenolic resin varnishes made from linseed oil and tung oil respectively.

As for the knot I usually fill them with epoxy... I add a drop of TransTint dye to the epoxy to make it very dark.

Thanks for the response. I wouldn't dye the sapwood as I like it but the tables are for my brother and he is not a fan. As for the knot do you recommend filling it first before I start finishing?

[Brad Wood]

As for the knot do you recommend filling it first before I start finishing?

That is what I would do... you are going to fill the hole so the epoxy is "proud", then sand it down once it hardens.
If you don't fill it "proud", you may find it needs a second application once it hardens. The epoxy tends to settle into the cracks as it sits there, so while it looks good when you walk away, when you come back an hour later it could be lower than when you left.

[Jeff Nolan]

you have to tint the epoxy before you finish the piece because once it hardens you are done. Transtint or Japan color works well for epoxy.

I typically take a piece of waxpaper and lay it on the epoxy, clamping a caul to force the epoxy into the knot. Once it's set and while it's still soft you can take a sharp, very sharp, chisel and pare off the excess epoxy... it's easier than sanding it off when it hardens.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Was at a finishing class with Jeff Jewett - he did exactly this - walnut and sapwood, with water-based dye (transtint, of course).

One thing that stuck in my memory - he pointed out that the heartwood would darken more with final finish than the tinted sapwood will. So - he was sure to keep a section of the heartwood wet with min spirits while mixing up and testing the dye - started a little light, then continued to darken until the small sample section of sapwood matched the color of the wet heartwood, then go to town, wiping on carefully along the border.

Came out great after final finish applied.

[lowell holmes]

I've been told Vandyke Brown stain made from walnut husks will blend the sapwood to a dark color.
I have some that I applied to the cherry rockers on a mesquite rocking chair. You would not know the rockers are cherry by looking at them

[Scott Holmes]

I normally fill knots with tinted epoxy before I apply dye. When adding epoxy to a knot I like to leave it VERY PROUD of the surface that way any settling is accounted for

and

more importantly any bubbles that don't quite make it to the surface before it cures are removed when you cut it down level with the surface.

[Chris Padilla]

I successfully used Behlen's NGR dyes to blend sapwood into heartwood. NGR is non-grain raising. Be sure to practice on some scrap to get a feel for how much to apply and such. Following that, I applied tinted oil/varnish mixture (Velvit Oil) to further blend and my final coats were several sprayed coats of shellac (Sealcoat from Bullseye). On some wear surfaces, I applied poly/varnish for better durability.

[Glen Butler]

Hijacked -- I have used a mineral streak black powder that you mix with water into a paste on my knots. It dries really hard, but is sandable. Is this not good to use? I notice everyone else uses epoxy.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

When filling and finishing knots I take the knot to the point it will be before a finish is applied (if using stain or dye) and moisten it with water or alcohol and see what the final color will be. Then you can make something that will match it. Usually since the knot is endgrain it doesn't make any difference and anything black will do but you never know.