Drum sander questions

[Frank Martin]

I have never owned a drum sander and have a few questions to understand if it will save significant time in my next project.

As part of a kitchen refacing project I will be making about 25 kitchen cabinet doors and around 12 solid wood drawers. I have a spiral head jointer/planer that gives me fairly smooth surface, but leaves those little ripples that need to be removed.

The kitchen doors I will be making will be frame and panel, with a plywood panel. If I get a drum sander can I send the assembled door through the drum sander and get away with only 180g final ROS sanding or would not really cut down the sanding significantly.

I am also curious how the drum sander performes when sanding assembled doors with the rails sanded cross grain.

The machine I am considering is Jet 22-44. Also, even with all the reviews I could find I am not sure how effective the osciallation is in giving a better surface finish. Appreciate any input you have expecially if you have first hand experience with these machines.

[Eddie Darby]

I would take a look at the "V" Drum Sander at StockRoomSupply.com and checkout the video section.

They sand finished kitchen doors, and no burning at the glue joints, and they also demo removing varnish from old kitchen doors with no gumming up of the sandpaper or burning.

You can with an 18" drum sand wood up to 36" in width.

It's a major change in how sanding is done. So there is a small learning curve.

The drum just does not build up heat like the old drums and so you don't have the problems the old system has.

http://www.theonlinewoodshow.com/sho...&prod=drumdemo

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/infop...SanderInfo.php

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO the drum sander is a single use pony, and no other tool does what it does. It can level out your door panels as well as your frames. It makes all of your wood the same thickness, and gives it a relatively consistent surface finish. I think it saves a lot of time. It does not appear to matter end or long grain. It sands either or both at the same time.

Scroll down, there is a recent 22-44 thread. I have a 16-32, could not afford the big one at the time, but the 16 is all I really need. As far as the oecillating head, I wish I had one. On the rougher grits, the sander leaves some pretty good lines.

[Ron Bontz]

I did all my raised panel kitchen cabinet doors with a jet 22-44 and 120 grit sand paper. It worked very well. I just touched up the doors with a 100/120 grit random orbital sander. Definitely a good bang for the buck IMHO.

[Paul Johnstone]

I think it's best when making doors to sand the panel, rails, and styles before assembly. Then use your router/shaper to cut the profiles and assemble. You might need some very quick ROS work to level out the joint at the rails and styles.

Pushing through and assembled door is not a good idea,

You will get cross grain scratching on the styles, which you will have to remove with ROS.

Also, if you cut too agressively with the sander, you will sometimes get a dip cut in the raised panel. It's kind of hard to explain, but I have seen it happen.

Just take my word for it.. Sand the pieces individually, shape, and then assemble the door. You will still save a lot of time.

[Frank Martin]

Ron,

When you drum sanded the assembled doors did you see any cross grain scratches on the rails of the doors, that required siginificant additional ROS sanding, or did it come out without those scratches?

I did all my raised panel kitchen cabinet doors with a jet 22-44 and 120 grit sand paper. It worked very well. I just touched up the doors with a 100/120 grit random orbital sander. Definitely a good bang for the buck IMHO.

[Blake-Kagen]

I have a Performax 22-44 I bought back in the early 90's. Never had any problems with it and it has sanded many doors, panels and face frames. The best thing to do is to assemble your doors, flatten them in the sander. Drum sanders leave linear sanding scratches so you have to come back with an OS and do a final sand on them. When you get that completed and if you have an decorative edge on the your doors then run the edge.
I use only 120 grit on the sander. It's important also to remember it's a sander not a planer so take light passes on anything you sand.
I have a wide belt in my big shop with 120 on the front and 180 on the back drums and we still have to finish sand with an OS. The only difference I see between the two is the wide belt is faster and cost a lot more to run especially when we burn a belt and have to replace it.
I buy the belts for both my sanders from Industrial Abrasives and have always been well pleased with their belts and service. I run the 22-44 on a regular basis and average using three belts a year. If my 22-44 crashed on me today I would go to Atlanta and get me a Jet 22-44 to replace it.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Frank,

I have a 37" closed end double drum sander. I use it on almost every project. Like others have said, sanding cabinet doors, face frames, etc makes everything flat and the same thickness.

In my experience, sanding cross grain leaves scratches. How deep the scratches are depends on how aggressive your are and what grit paper you use. I use 80 and 120 grit. You still have to use your ros to finish things off.

I don't think I would go from a drum sander, cross grain sanding (120 grit), to 180 grit on the ros. I would start with 100 - 120 on the ros. When you finish you have a door, face frame that is flat, and the same thickness.

I use the drum sander on drawers as well. It makes the drawers perfect as far as the hight of the drawer.

If you get a drum sander, I think you will use more that you think.

Sam

[Ron Bontz]

Frank,
The lines across grain sand out very easily with a ROS. I used 120 grit on my ROS. You can always drop down to a 100 grit. I had absolutely no problems. I sand assembled flat panel doors always with my drum sander. I use a drum sander all the time now. Especially if I need to take off a little bit without running into a snipe problem from a planer. Keep in mind your rail and stile joints should line up flush to begin with whether you use a shaper or a router table. I use both depending on the number of doors. A little time spent getting the joints to fit correctly is worth gold in time saved. Scrape off any globs of glue of course and make light passes. I upgraded to a dual drum sander last year and run 220 grit on the second drum. 120 then 220. Pops out nice and smooth. Yet I still hit it quickly with a ROS, just in case.

[Chip Lindley]

Sanding cross grain always leaves scratches comensurate with the size grit being used. Some shops expect customers to accept cross grain scratches as *normal* but IMO quality work should show none to the naked eye. Sanding out the scratches with ROS adds an extra step which pretty much cancels out the efficiency of a drum sander.

I do not drum sand finished door assemblies. Rail/stile stock is planed to a consistent thickness, then run through drum sander before run through the shaper. Then shapers cut the cope and sticking. Accuracy in milling leaves only a very minimal touchup with ROS to even out the joints; usually less than .003" difference.

Raised panel glueups are where the drum sander shines! Panel boards are planed to 13/16", then glued up. Excess glue is scraped off panels, then run through the ol' Griz 1066 for sanding with 80g then 120g to final thickness. Since all sanding is with the grain, no scratches are evident after the fnish levels out.

Your ply panels must be sanded before inserting in their frame. Today's veneer being so thin, very judicious use of a drum sander would be needed. Hitting the ply panels with a ROS would probably be quicker (and safer) than running panels through the drum. And results may be better.

Consider how much time is consumed in any step involved in constructing your doors. Stock of consistent thickness (imo) is the first, most efficient step.

[Frank Martin]

I already get consistent stock thickness with great surface finish from the spiral head planer. Doors will be joined using dominos, which always lines up perfectly, so the last step would be ROS starting 120 grit to clean up the ripples from the planer. Seems like that is about where I would need to start after drum sanding anyway. Plywood planels would be ROS sanded before assembly, they only need 180 grit ROS. Plus the ply panel will be inset in the frame, so drum sander will not even touch it.

Am I missing somethin here?

[Sam Layton]

Well Frank, sounds like you have it covered. A drum sander is not a machine that does it all. Like any other machine, it has its place in the shop.

I also get great cuts from my jointer and planer. I sure like my drum sander, and use it on most all projects. My ros is not my finish sander. Hand sanding in my final step.

Sam

[Frank Martin]

It seems like I am covered. I will do a trial run with several doors and see if a drum sander would bring significant efficiency at any point during the process and decide based on that.

Thanks again to everyone for the input.

[Paul Johnstone]

Am I missing somethin here?

It all depends.. IMO, you can save a lot of time by putting several rail/style pieces through the drum sander at once. Raised panels go a lot quicker too.

If you have a glueup that is too wide to go through the planer, the drum sander is a god send for getting everything a consistent thickness.

Obviously, a ROS alone can still get the job done though.
If I am just doing a few pieces, I will ROS them in order to avoid rolling the drum sander out, hooking up DC, etc. But on a big job, the drum sander is a huge timesaver, IMO.