Waterlox over BLO?

[Martin Shupe]

Has anyone tried this?

After sampling several finishes, the one my wife likes best is the orginal Waterlox.

I want to get some depth to the wood, so I am thinking about trying a couple coats of Tried and True Linseed Oil (not the varnish mixture), followed by 2-3 coats of Waterlox.

Jim Becker already suggested a coat of garnet shellac, but I feel I need to take the shellac finishing course first, so for now I am trying to keep it simple.

The wood is cherry, of course.

Also, any comments on techniques for rubbing out Waterlox? I have a few bubbles that have dried in the finish. Steel wool? If so, I think it will take a lot of work.

Any other Waterlox advice appreciated!

[Byron Trantham]

Martin,
Jim is right. You will need a barrier between the BLO and the Waterlux. As a matter of fact I am in the middle of a large wall unit done in cherry. I am using BLO, shellac and Target coating's WB lacquer. Water based products don't mix well with an oil based product, hence the shellac. Good luck.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I use the Waterlox original finish quite a bit when I want a thick and fairly glossy finish that doesn't take forever to build. It really doesn't need a shellac barrier coat over BLO since it is a mixture of solvents, polymerized tung oil, and a small amount of phenolic resin varnish. The polymerized tung oil in the finish will bond very solidly and nicely to the BLO. As for rubbing out, you can make your work easier by leveling the finish first with a 400 grit wet/dry abrasive. This might help you get rid of the bubbles. It doesn't matter whether you use sandpaper or one of the finer synthetic pads like the 3M gray ones. Afterwards I would put on one more light coat of Waterlox thinned slightly and let it cure for a couple of weeks. The final rubout can be done with 0000 steel wool and paste wax or alternately, with a 3M white pad and wax.

[Carl Eyman]

On Jeff Jewitt's advice I'm using a 2/3 - 1/3 mix of Original WaterLox and WaterLox satin over seedlac shellac (about 15 coats). It is a pleasing satin finish. It is not building up fast as I am wiping it on. There are no bubble problems, but it is a bit streaky. Glad to hear it can be steel wooled. I tried 0000 in an obscure part and it looked like it would work. Any Cautions?

[Donnie Raines]

This is all to much work. Martin, I suspect a finish that you and your wife will really like is Pratt and Lambert #38 varnish. Dont get me wrong...I have done the BLO/Shellac/lacquer thing...and it is nice(particulary if you use garnet shellac). But I have become very fond of the PL finish. It comes as a brushing varnish, but I thin mine 75% varnish to 25% mineral spirits...thus making a wipeing varnish. It is rather clear when cured, but dries very quickly and smooth. Simply rub it on....and rub it off(kind of like David Marks does on tv......). Dont let it sit...it will become very tacky and then your trouble. I have found this finsh to look very simliar, in end results, to the blo/shallac routine. Only you can apply about 4 cotas in one day....and it requires no buffing and waxing.

By the way..the curly maple table I made was coated with PL only!!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12710

Just a thought....

[Jack Hogoboom]

I've heard a lot about the Pratt & Lambert finish. Donnie, is the stuff hard to find? I've never seen it anywhere.

I love the Waterlox finish. When I took my class with Frank Klausz, that's what he used. He used one coat of shellac which he sanded with 320 grit paper. Then did three or four coats of Waterlox, sanding the first few with 320, the last couple with 400 and then 0000 steel wool before the final coat. Then he waxed it. Absolutely slick to the touch!!

I subsequently discovered that the more coats you put on, the glossier the finish becomes, so it's pretty easy to get the sheen you'd like.

I'd like to try that lacquer though. Four coats in one day....

Jack

[Donnie Raines]

Hey Jack,

It appears that PL is somewhat challenging to find. If you visit Pratt and Lambert's web site they have a store directory. That should help in locating this product.

Yup...4 coats in one day with this varnish. But, you dont have the fumes that lacquer has.....never used the Target finish...so I dont know if it's odor is as strong as the "others". PL has a very low odor to it. I like it because it is very silky smooth without the wax.

[Jack Hogoboom]

Donnie,

Found a store 6 miles from my house!! Not too far at all. The website doesn't appear to have any information on the #38 varnish. Do you think any P&L store will carry it?

Thanks,

Jack

[Donnie Raines]

I read on another forum that all PL dealers were to carry the full line of products. If they do not stock it, I am sure they can order it.

[Jack Hogoboom]

BTW, I was mistaken. Its the first product listed. The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) makes for some interesting reading. I'm looking forward to trying this out.

Jack

[Ed Hardin]

If they do not carry it take a look at Sherwin Williams fast dry oil finish. It too is an alkyd varnish that leaves a very pleasing finish. I never could get P & L # 38 around here. They require the shore who whant to buy the stuff to carry the full line. So I have become quite fond of Sherwin Williams.

[Jim Becker]

Dave is correct...no problem with Waterlox over BLO. The suggestions on P&L #38 and SW Fast Dry are also good alternatives. I've been using Waterlox on my turnings lately with nice results and it doesn't seem to add a lot of extra color...that was nice on the ash piece I most recently turned. P&L #38 is good in that respect as it's soya oil based and that means it's very light in color. (Nice for Donnie's maple pieces to keep from materially altering the color) I just bought some SW Fast Dry Varnish, but have not used it yet.

BTW, the reason I recommended a coat of Garnett Shellac in a 2 lb cut was not so much as a sealer as for the little extra clarity and color robustness it adds to cherry without staining...which for many of us is an "evil thought"!

[Donnie Raines]

Dave is correct...no problem with Waterlox over BLO. The suggestions on P&L #38 and SW Fast Dry are also good alternatives. I've been using Waterlox on my turnings lately with nice results and it doesn't seem to add a lot of extra color...that was nice on the ash piece I most recently turned. P&L #38 is good in that respect as it's soya oil based and that means it's very light in color. (Nice for Donnie's maple pieces to keep from materially altering the color) I just bought some SW Fast Dry Varnish, but have not used it yet.

BTW, the reason I recommended a coat of Garnett Shellac in a 2 lb cut was not so much as a sealer as for the little extra clarity and color robustness it adds to cherry without staining...which for many of us is an "evil thought"!

Good point on the garnet shellac Jim!

Also, PL can be buffed to a high sheen....but if left in its "natural" state(if you would) is more satin in end result. This could be good or bad depending on what you want. I found that Waterlox was a bit to "brite" for my taste. As stated above, PL is more satin in finish.....but very smoooooth.

[Martin Shupe]

I have looked for P&L 38, but have not found it yet, so I'll check the website.

I think the Waterlox is just a little too shiny, but my wife likes it.

Perhaps I'll have to get some 38 and make her pick between the two.

Thanks for all the input.

Jim, do you mix your own garnet shellac, or use it out of a can? Any details would be appreciated.

[Jim Becker]

Martin, on previous projects, I've mixed the shellac fresh from flakes. For the armoire project, I'm going to try out a new water-based shellac product from Target Coatings and will likely spray it since the clean up is super easy.