Great write up Jim!
You answered a lot of questions I hadn't even thought up yet!
cheers,
Niels
Member
Great write up Jim!
You answered a lot of questions I hadn't even thought up yet!
cheers,
Niels
"Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden."
[OP]
Contributor
Originally Posted by Niels Cosman
Glad you like it.
It is in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs stickey
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...al-wisdom-FAQs
It is under #10. Miscellaneous Tools
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Contributor
Here is a link to some more information posted in reply to a question about auger bits.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...r-bit-question
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
My Irwins are 1960's vintage. I have nothing to compare them to. They will not fit a doweling jig.
Member
Thanks for the input Jim, it's time over here for a bit of reading.
I did lots of boring with a bit and brace in my youth, but back then a hole was just a hole and I've no idea what the type was.
The point about horses for courses makes a lot of sense. I for example have a set of short Irwin Blue Groove power augers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaW9Ll9rMwc, but was never been able to make much of them except for blasting holes through ceiling joists to run pipes and cables when setting up the shop. (which luckily was what they were bought for) No surprise when you look at the pitch of the flutes and the current advertising, but what's a pity is that they were for quite a while pushed in the UK woodworking mags as a fine woodworking solution. (makers in general no doubt chicken out so far as being too secific about applications is concerned)
Dieter Schmid in Germany has quite a decent range of (mostly power) augers, including Japanese made Star-M stuff which looks nice: http://www.fine-tools.com/schlangenbohrer.html Star-M catalogue: http://www.starminfo.com/en/catalogue/catalog.pdf
I bought a set of the augers he has on special offer as they look (and check out) as being decent, but realistically i'm not convinced that they will suitable for fine work judging by the way they are positioned in the catalogue. I haven't tried them yet, but presume the hex shank means they are intended for power use.
Boring in wood is in one way easy, but in another requires really sharp and precisely set up tooling to get clean entries and exits. Really good quality brad points like these Famag HSS-G are incredible http://www.fine-tools.com/holzspiralbohrer.html - so sharp you have to handle them carefully or you get nicked. No problem to drill even box store plywood cleanly - the nickers will actually trepann out a circle from the top veneer before they really start to cut.
Do you know if it's possible to get that sort of performance from a fine woodworking oriented power or bit and brace auger?
[OP]
Contributor
Most of my bits have been picked up at various places. There have been a couple of sets bought from ebay, but they can be hit or miss.
The Stanley/Handyman double spiral bits seem to be the closest to the actual size. Some of the old Stanley/Jennings pattern bits are also actual size. There are a couple patterns of the Russell Jennings bits. My recollection is there is a 100 series and a 32 series. My memory is fuzzy as to which is which.
Here is a link to an early Irwin Auger Bit pamphlet that covers a lot of different types of bits:
http://toolemera.com/pampdf/irwinhowtoPAM.pdf
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
The Borechest is the set I have. It's a nice set. As I said earlier, I inherited it from my father. That set is not going anywhere.
[OP]
Contributor
Looking at the page reminded me of what is likely most available to you may be metric sizes.Do you know if it's possible to get that sort of performance from a fine woodworking oriented power or bit and brace auger?
If an auger bit has sharp spurs that are long enough to scribe a complete circle before the lips of the spiral start to cut, then a clean hole can be bored. Of course for fine work, one has to be careful and remember to stop and come through the back side with care to obtain a clean looking hole.
Lee Valley has some interesting bits:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...240,53317&ap=1
These spoon bits often get used in my work.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
I have Lee Valley 3/4 inch brad point bit and as Ian says I can easily use a brace with it and make nice holes in plywood, etc, and it scribes a nice circle before going in.
Member
Following up on this discussion, I checked the diameters of some of the bits in my Borechest. They are as follows:
#16 ~ 1.022" od
#12 ~ 0.7612" od
#10 ~ 0.628" od
#8 ~ 0.522" od
#6 ~ 0.385" od
#5 ~ 0.322" od
It would be interesting to see if other bit makers had similar numbers.
Last edited by lowell holmes; 02-26-2015 at 2:07 PM. Reason: corrected readings
Contributor
Most of those are closer to whole Metric numbers than Imperial fractions. 26mm? Strange.
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Member
Not sure how it applies to bits for use in a brace, but i guess the other peculiarity about drills (and cutting tools) in general is that that depending on the geometry, how they are sharpened and the cutting speed they may not drill to their actually measured diameter. As the chip peels off the actual line of fracture may be displaced a little out from the cutting edge.
A little bit of a bend or runout/hand wobble for any reason will presumably also mess with tolerances...
Member
In another discussion, we were talking about auger bit diameters, doweling jigs and such. I commented that Irwin bits were 1/64" over size precluding their use in doweling jigs. Jim mentioned there are auger bits made for dowel. This indicates all auger bits are not created the same. I was just following up on that discussion.
[OP]
Contributor
That seems to be the only outlier in the group. All the others are a little oversize as would be expected with most auger bits. The #10 is actually undersized.#10 ~ 0.6211" od
My first instinct would be to check and see if someone may have tried sharpening the spurs on the outside.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
or go back and check my reading.
I was confused on that reading. Actually it was 0.628.
That falls right where it should.
Go back to my earlier post. I corrected the readings.
I don't read a micrometer enough and sometimes I get confused.Can you imagine that?
Last edited by lowell holmes; 02-26-2015 at 2:10 PM. Reason: corrected reading
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