Cabinet refacing finish

[Gene Zimmerman]

I need all the help i can get...
I am starting to redo my kitchen....it will be in hickory using shaker design. I have built and finished the pull-outs, using birch cabinet grade ply and poly satin finish. the result is ok, but too many dust nibs or bubbles for next step, which is doors and drawer fronts.
so...what finish would you all recommend, and how should i apply.. I dont have a spray booth, but suppose i could build a temp one outside out of plastic, if necessary. i was going to use the poly satin on the doors and drawer fronts until i did the pullouts and saw the results (not horrible...just not great).
should i consider a water based product instead? should i consider a different oil based product? in either case, and application advice would be appreciated.
should i assemble the doors/drawer fronts before starting the finish work, or should i finish the panel (hickory plywood) before assembling into the railes and stiles? or?? i have thought about finishing the entire sheets of plywood before even cutting it to size....would that make any sense??
i have read a lot of these posts, and they have a lot of advice, but need it in clear text....i dont know all the abreviations you all use for some of the products.
thanks so much for your thoughts

[Scott Holmes]

Poly is for floors, not cabinets.

Lots of questions...

"what finish would you all recommend?" Waterlox Satin this is a phenolic resin/tung oil, VARNISH, one of the best for kitchens & baths

"should i consider a water based product instead?" No water-borne finishes are not nearly as waterproof and watervapor proof as the quality oil-based varnish. They are acrylics.

"should i consider a different oil based product?" see above

"in either case, and application advice would be appreciated." Thin the varnish ~20% and use a quality natural bristle brush. Waterlox dries very slowly so it flows out beautifully.

"should i assemble the doors/drawer fronts before starting the finish work, or should i finish the panel (hickory plywood) before assembling into the railes and stiles? or?? i have thought about finishing the entire sheets of plywood before even cutting it to size" Bold is your answer

[Gene Zimmerman]

thanks so much, scott. never heard of waterlux, but will find some. thin with mineral spirits, i assume??? i assume i will get some dust nibs.....how would you recommend i deal with them? and thanks again

[Pete McMahon]

Scott,

When varnishing do you ever use foam brushes? I find them to be a good alternative to bristle; no cleaning and no waste solvent.
Since the varnish does the work by leveling out, I've found the brushing technique is easy and quick to master.
Say I'm varnishing a door with raised panels, I'll use a short bristle flat wash brush for the hips and a foam brush for the rest. Plus with a foam brush I can cut an extremely clean and precise line between rails and stiles.

[Scott Holmes]

No, I don't like foam brushes... They tend to leave alot of bubbles and they don't have a nice smooth contact surface.

Once you use a quality brush, I like Gramercy, ~$40; and Omega-Lily ~$45 (2" size),
you will actually see and feel the difference. Most quality brushes shed for the first 5-10 times you use them, after that they are amazing.

Proper brush care is essential; and properly treating your brushes will pay big rewards. I have a 2" bager hair from Rockler ~$25 that has been used for varnish for a few years and has been cleaned at least 200 times... most people in my finishing classes think it's a new or nearly new brush.

PROPER CARE you ask...

Pre-condition the brush with mineral spirits (MS) BEFORE you start to apply varnish...
This will fill the get the natural bristle wet and fill ferrule with MS. Gently shake the excess out, NOW your brush is READY to varnish.

When it's time to clean up; the ferrule will still be wet with MS, which is much easier to clean than a ferrule filled with varnish. I have a 5 can system marked 1, 2, 3,... (a 3 can system is OK). Start by carefully pouring the clean MS from can 1, rinse brush; then pour MS that back into can 1; pour the clear MS off the top of can 2; repeat until you go through all 5 (or 3) cans. Use fresh MS and pour the excess into the last can, it should be almost perfectly clear. Save this MS for future use; you will be surprized how long it lasts.

Next I use a household citrus cleaner (NOT blade clear stuff) it helps breakdown the MS, a couple of quick rinises and then move on to liquid soap and water. Rinse
thoroughly in clean water til it runs soap free and clear. Shake it dry, wrap it in a paper towel to form the bristles, and hang it to dry.

It took me longer to type this than it takes to properly clean a good brush.

[Pete McMahon]

Good info.
When using a foam brush I take the same approach of charging it first with a little MS.I never find air bubbles to be a concern unless you really shove the brush down to the bottom of the varnish container and then it acts like a sponge. When starting I'll dip it into the varnish about a third of the way down, lift it out and point it up and then re-dip. Now I have a loaded brush without runny excess. If there are any bubbles and there are bubbles initially with any brush they quickly settle out.

I find the contact to the surface to be very flat. Different strokes that's all.

I dare say that badger brush from Rockler is actually skunk. Any type of radius or carved parts I'll use a good bristle, but flats.. foam works like a charm for me.

Another case for a foam brush; I varnished a large table with a 4 inch foam brush. When it was done I was asked what I sprayed it with. True story.

[Gene Zimmerman]

sorry, but reading the 5-can process of cleaning brushes, i dont follow it. would you be so kind as to try to explain again. thanks

[Gene Zimmerman]

and scott, what do you think about the cloth pad method. i used to use it 40 years ago, and forgot all about it till i started researching this project. i liked it then...

[Jim Becker]

For ease of application without spraying, Waterlox is a nice choice.

That said, I would have no hesitation from using a quality water borne finish for kitchen cabinets...and did so in 2003 when I renovated our kitchen. They have held up beautifully and are only now starting to show some wear and tear, largely because I have a couple of daughters who don't tend to pay attention to what they are banging into things as they trot by...

[Bob Timms]

Not to hijack the thread, but how do the Target water borne's brush. I'm doing some glass panel cabinets and it would seem to me a little easier and not waste so much finish to brush rather than spray.

[Scott Holmes]

Well the 5 can method is...

Start with mineral spirits to clean the brush... I normally pour my varnish into a 5"x9" stainless steel pan (steam table type, 2" deep) when finished I dump any varnish left.

Then I add mieral spirits from the 1st rinse can.. Clean the brush and pan then pour it back into the 1st rinse can. Then I pour the clear MS out of the 2nd rinse can clean brush and put it in the 1st or 2nd rinse can depending on how clean it is. Then pour the clear MS off the top of the 3rd rinse can clean brush and pour into 2nd or 3rd rinse can. (I go to 4th and 5th) now you should be able to use freash MS and clean brush once or twice and be done. Pour left over into 2nd then next time or 2 into the 3rd rinse can. Now you have a clean (with MS) brush; go on to citrus cleaner and then soap and water.


Padding is a term I save for shellac... wiping varnish on is an excellent way to apply varnish; and get a nice even and dust free (?) finish. Any varnish can be used as a wiping varnish just mix it 50/50 with MS and you are good to go. I use an old tee shirt or a blue shop towel to wipe-on varnish. Remember than wipe-on should be like the kid at the fast food joint wipes the table just before you sit down. 3 wipe-on coats is ~ equal to 1 brush on coat.