NEW - Sweet Heart Plane, disappointing

[michael case]

I purchased the new version of the Stanley Sweetheart no. 4 plane. I regret to say that it was huge disappointment. Heres how it was. The saddest thing about his plane is that Stanley really tried to get it right. Boy was I happy when I first got it home. I checked the sole against a machinist straight edge and square. It was dead flat and required no truing. If you ever trued a plane like the cheap Stanleys or Records or whatever you can imagine what a relief this was. It was heavy and well made. The handles were Cherry and the plane was very handsome. I'm finicky about sharpening and was very happy to find the iron had a flat back and was a full 1/8" thick. It was a breeze to polish the back. Again no truing required. I put it on the Tormek and put a hollow grind on it. I marched it up through the stones all the way to a surgical black Arkansas. I put the iron in the plane dialed everything in and tried it out. Heres where it got dissapointing. The iron would just not hold an edge. It chipped up in a twinkling. It gouged and tore. I put it back on to a white hard Arkansas and worked back up to the black surgical. Same thing. A few passses (over poplar for crying out loud!) and it chipped up and went dull. So I went back to square one and worked it up from an 800 japanese water stone all the way up to Arkansas Black. Same result - chip and tear. I did this three times! Chipped up and tore every time. What junk! I use this the same extensive sharpening procedure on all my tools - British-made Sorby chisels, German-made two Cherry chisels, inexpensive Marples and ironically the planing irons in the inexpensive Stanley planes. They all take and hold an edge way, way, way, better than whatever the hell kind of steel is in this new higher-end Sweetheart by Stanley. In light of all the nice workmanship evident in this plane I have no sure answer for this strange anomaly. Maybe I just got a bad one. Maybe whoever supplies the steel to Stanley is ripping them off. But, whatever the reason, the plane was absolutely useless. It was like buying a Rolls and finiding out it had an Izuzu transmission. Needless to say, it went right back to the store. Has anyone else had this experience? Anyway its a shame because the plane was really a keeper otherwise. Well I guess I'll continue to use my old cheap Stanley planes with their thin, but usuable irons while I save up to buy planes from Lie-Nielsen.

[John Coloccia]

I almost bought one some months ago. Brand spanking new at Woodcraft...they didn't even take one out of the box for display yet. He took it out and said, "Hey, John....check this out". I took a look at it, and it seemed nice. Then I looked a little closer and noticed that the sole near the throat was chipped. Thanks, but no thanks. Like you, I really wanted to like these. I'm guessing that they might generally be OK, but that they have QC issues and may be very inconsistent.

Definitely check out Lee Valley planes. I have both LN and LV planes, and I have to say it's a bit of a toss up for me. The LN are VERY nice, but I haven't found that they necessarily outperform my LV. The last couple of planes I've bought were all LV, and I'm very very satisfied. Oh, I did just pick up a LN model makers plane. LOL. Seriously, they're both very nice, and you'll save $$$ with Lee Valley.

[Tom Winship]

I just got my latest FWW today. There is a review on the Sweetheart line and it is not real flattering.
Tom

[Dan O'Sullivan]

Well I guess I'll continue to use my old cheap Stanley planes with their thin, but usuable irons while I save up to buy planes from Lie-Nielsen. MC

Why not take your old Stanleys and change the cap and iron to a Hock?? You will be surprised how well the old tools will work with an updated blade. I prefer the HC blades. Some have had good luck using the old cap and a new blade. I like Ron's blade with a new cap iron. I have an old rosewood handled 3 and 4 with new Hock blades tuned up. I beat these things to death. Lots of work on maple and walnut. Lots. No doubt the LN planes are nice. I have a low angle jack with a few blades at different angles for the wild stuff. Finding an old Stanley low angle jack is tough. Finding nice old 3,4 or 5 stanley planes in my area is easy. If you have them already, forget the new stuff ... its junk. Just refit your old planes. It might be a solution??
dan

[michael case]

Hi John, Tom and Dan,

John,I've heard nice stuff about Lee valley planes. I'll certainly take a look.

Tom, I'm going to go over to FWW and have look see.

Dan, that might be an idea. I use a 4, a 5, and 6 fore plane which takes a wider blade. The are not the nice old ones, but I already invested a lot if time truing the soles, so I wouldn't mind keeping them. How much did you pay for the Hocks?

[Mike Henderson]

Hi Dan,
That might be an idea. I use a 4, a 5, and 6 fore plane which takes a wider blade. How much did you pay for the Hocks?

Hock makes a very good blade, but also look at the LN blades and chip breakers, and the LV blades. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Mike

[Joel Goodman]

These guys have the Hocks at a discount
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/H!BENCH.htm
I've also had good luck with thicker irons like these
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...tegory_Code=TR
but you may have to open up the mouth of the plane a touch -- I did!

[Jeff Farris]

Michael,

Did you return it yet?

I would try this first.

Put it back on the Tormek and grind a bunch of the tool off. I know, I know, you don't want to waste the tool steel, and it shouldn't be like this. You're right. But the reality is that in either the tempering of the blade initially or the grinding of the bevel, it is very likely that the tool edge was not treated with the same respect you're giving it. Take a sixteenth off the blade and then run it through your stones (or save yourself some time in the testing phase and finish it on your Tormek).

If it doesn't work, you have an even better argument for a refund. If it does work, you have what you wanted in the first place.

I never make a judgment about a tool's edge holding properties until I've gone through about an eighth of an inch of blade.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I agree with Jeff. It's quite common for new blades to have less than perfect quality along the edge. Unless something is really wrong with your blade, your blade should be fine after grinding off a bit.

[scott spencer]

Sounds like the bean counters and lawyers are still running Stanley. I'm afraid not much is going to change for Stanley Tool in the near future.

[George Beck]

I really try to avoid ranting and offering posts on my opinion rather than something useful, there is enough of that everywhere these days. However, at the risk of being offensive, let me say I would not buy a Stanley Plane or any other tool of theirs at any price. Stanley tool works owned the hand plane business. They made the best planes and revolutionized the market. They then decided to follow the business model of buying a recognized brand name built on quality and exploit it until by the 90's their planes were basically useless except as door stops. Many of us who started woodworking in the late 70's and early 80's were frustrated by this trend and turned to either Japanese tools or vintage tools just to get working tools. A few dedicated crafts people like Thomas Lie-Nielsen and Ron Hock and others answered the call and started, at much personal risk, making quality tools for our craft. Thanks to the promotion of Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking their business has grown into a nice little business. You younger wood workers are lucky to be able to buy tools that you can use right out of the box. Fine Woodworking declared years ago that all hand tools came as a kit and could not be used without considerable work. I have spent weeks lapping and truing planes just to get a mediocre tool. Even the notion here about the plane iron! Why should I spend money on a plane iron to remove an 1/8 of steel just to see if it might be workable? Now Stanley wants to price break and reclaim the products they destroyed. This happens over and over with Delta, Black and Decker, Porter Cable, Crescent and the list goes on and on.I feel an obligation to help support the folks who supported our craft and answered our needs. We cannot "WallMart" everybody! Anyway, I am an old man now and feel entitled to a few rants. I have to go chase some kids off my lawn now.

George

[James Taglienti]

In all reality George many of us younger woodworkers can't afford to buy quality right out of the box. I think that the price of the new Stanley SW line is very fair considering what they have. This is based on reviews. For a large number of woodworkers it doesn't seem outrageous to pay $175 for a 604 Bedrock and then spring for a Hock iron, while still having to fettle for a good 3 hours. The new Stanley's are $150.
I am very disappointed to hear about the poor quality steel. My rampant cynicism dictates that Stanley's customer service will be miserable. If they wanted to play with the big boys, they should have got it right.
Stanley made more than one generation of woodworkers wary of their artisan's tools and left them wishing for days gone by. Perhaps now they are just offering us an illusion in the hopes that we will bite. Perhaps we expect the steel quality of a plane that costs $100 more.
I still want to buy a premium Stanley plane and probably will in the near future.

[Jim Paulson]

Heh George,

Thanks for that comment. You were refreshing in describing the way things really are. BTW, I didn't hear you as ranting.

Maybe that's why so many of us still love the old tools, and we can appreciate the higher end tool makers who maintain the tradition of quality, when we can afford it that is. I love the quality of LN, but I still get a kick out of tuning up an old wood plane or a hand saw.

Jim

[Joe Cunningham]

I feel an obligation to help support the folks who supported our craft and answered our needs. We cannot "WallMart" everybody! Anyway, I am an old man now and feel entitled to a few rants. I have to go chase some kids off my lawn now.

George

That was awesome. This young whippersnapper agrees and I try to get a brand new tool each year from the guys who are making great tools now. I have a few vintage tools that I've reconditioned to usable shape and I enjoy that, but I also realize that without spending some $$$ for quality, quality will go away from the marketplace.

[Paul Murphy]

I am enjoying the Veritas planes when I can spare the funds to aquire them. They are pretty much ready to go out of the box, and you actually get what you have paid for. I also have a couple Lie-Nielsen tools, and am happy with them as well. Like a couple of the other folks, I find it quite refreshing to get a tool built to my standards, by people who care about what they produce.