Being a "glass half full" kinda guy, can we at least give Stanley a tip of the hat for trying to improve what they've screwed into the ground over the last 50 years?
Being a "glass half full" kinda guy, can we at least give Stanley a tip of the hat for trying to improve what they've screwed into the ground over the last 50 years?
Jeff Farris
In my opinion, that is how almost everything is produced today....you find higher quality among the small privately owned businesses because they can do what they want without worrying about the 'board' or the 'stockholders'. Corporationism ruins almost everything because of this...just in the tool world you can see numerous examples of high quality private manufacturers: Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, Estwing, Klein, Festool and then their corporationed counterparts who once were high quality private manufacturers and now, well, not: BlackandDeckerPorterCableDeWaltDeltaStanley megapooperation...need i say more? I try support smaller private businesses whenever I can be it woodworking or otherwise....last I checked Sam Adams was still a privately owned brewery....
That which does not kill you will likely raise your insurance premiums.
Except what happens when Stanley's price undercutting allows them to reclaim the market and drive L-N, LV, and Hock out of business? The bean counters will no longer see a need to compete against high quality tool makers and the cycle starts again. Except next time maybe some future Thomas Lie-Nielsen won't be so eager to fill the void knowing that he'll just be driven out once Stanley decides they have to start producing quality tools again for a while.
Great post George! For me, its also nice to see quality tools being produced in North America. We don't manufacture much in the U.S. and Canada anymore so I happily wait a little longer to save something extra to buy my next tool if it means helping protect this small bit of North American manufacturing.
I've seen this debate quickly divide woodworking forums and it shouldn't. This is just my opinion, to each his or her own.
On Stanley's web site I didn't find (in an admittedly quick look) where the new Sweetheart's are being made. I hope it is here.
I think Stanley's 4 or 5 planes are going to have to go a long way down the road before they create any serious problems for L-N or Veritas.
Besides that, now that Black and Decker has absorbed Stanley, I wouldn't bet on the survival of the Sweethearts for more than a couple years, at best.
Jeff Farris
According to Chris Schwarz's writeup in Woodworking Magazine, the irons are made in England, the plane bodies are made in Mexico.
I think those who are looking for high quality tools are probably aware of Stanley's reputation already, and those ones who see new Stanley planes and go for it probably never heard of Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen. It probably was a Stanley's attempt to dig into high quality hand plane market, but I think it's a difficult market for them. Whether it was a right decision for them or not, all in all, it's still a very tiny pocket of overall market for Stanley's product lines, failing it wouldn't tickle Stanley much I suppose.
But at the same time, I don't think it's fair to say "see how horrible this plane is?" Soley on blade performance for the initial few sharpening sessions. The fact is, this can occur on blades from reputable manufacturers, too. If there is a problem with Veritas plane's blade, and if you shoot an email to them, they'll get back to you and first suggest grinding some off the edge, too. While it may not be a common knowledge to grind edge off, especially those who are new to hand tools, this is a common practice in the process of 'breaking in' a blade. You don't need to take 1/8" off the edge, though. That's too much I think.
I don't care about Stanley's contemporary products enough to like or dislike. I'm indifferent, but I think it's kind of unfair to judge it before trying to remedy the issue. I can't imagine people coming here and saying "oh look at LV's awful quality control, they can't even make a blade right" if it was LV products. I know Stanley's reputation as hand tool manufacturer is pretty much gone, but it's kind of unfair to judge still relatively new product without doing the basic remedy. Like I said, it can happen to blades from anyone.
Last edited by Sam Takeuchi; 02-11-2010 at 2:10 PM.
I'm going to agree with Sam (since he agreed with me earlier ). I've got a Lie-Nielsen block plane that I've sharpened about a dozen times now, and it is just now starting to perform up to my expectations. It has been brittle and quick to dull up until the last couple of sharpenings. It can happen with any plane iron or chisel from any manufacturer.
Jeff Farris
While I think it's good that they (LN, LV and others) will readily send you replacement, but I don't think it's a good idea to ask for replacement needlessly. It's a loss for them. While they probably consider that as some kind of investment to develop and ensure customer loyalty, asking for a replacement at the first sign of issue without trying to try to work it out is not something I'd do. If it's a genuine defect, certainly I'd ask for a replacement since no matter what I do, it wouldn't fix it, but something like plane blade, I really think it's in the area where users can attempt to fix. Maybe that's not how product was meant to be, but it happens and easily fixable without asking manufacturer to send a new one.
Sam. I certainly agree. I have never needed to have anything LN or LV replaced and am not trying to start a "run on the store"! But I like to know that the manufacturer is there. I did sent a Ln 62 back to have the sides ground square. They were happy to do it and I wouldn't have wanted to try it myself.
Technically Stanley owns Black and Decker who own Delta, Porter Cable and Dewalt... Cooper Industries owns Crescent, Lufkin, Disston, and Wiss among others.
So you should have a short list of bean couters to be mad at.
IMHO, the consumers are to blame for a lot of the issue. Every time we buy something we vote with our dollars. Take the Crescent Wrench at BORG for example.
People walk in and see the Crescent Wrench made right here in the Carolinas hanging next to the Kolbalt Chineese Knock off at a 20-30% discount. When they walk out of the store with the BORG version they vote for a poorly made wrench that is dirt cheap... There is only so much material & labors costs you can squeeze out of a wrench and after a certian point when all the votes come back for cheap the CEO's are forced to react.
If people said I'll pay and extra buck or two for a quality tool and the Kolbalts sat on the the shelf the CEO's over there would be forced to make a better product in order to compete.
Last edited by brian c miller; 02-11-2010 at 4:14 PM.
My own opinion is that even if you can fix the "defect" you should alert the company. First, it might not be a defect and they can tell you why it's the way it is. Second, if it is a defect, it's valuable knowledge to them. It alerts them that they may have a process problem, or a material problem, or an employee problem. They may not do anything about one report, but if they get a couple more, a prudent company will start to investigate and has an opportunity to correct the manufacturing problem.
Third, it allows them to do take customer satisfaction actions. Over and over, it has been shown that if a company responds well and quickly to reported problems, it generally increased customer loyalty and satisfaction.
A good company welcomes reports of problems and defects.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.