NEW - Sweet Heart Plane, disappointing

[Jim Koepke]

I doubt anyone is at the other end of the phone at Stanley who can do that.

Of course they can't, the shipping charges from India are just too prohibitive.

jim

[Johnny Kleso]

You can try anneling the blade and take some of the hardness out of it..

Heat your oven to 350º and place the blade in there for 20 mins it should get a very very slight gold color you could only see in very good light.. If lacking the color add it back for 10 mins more and repeat till you see the very slight gold color.. If you get to a brown or god forbid blue its too soft..

Cheap steel has this problem too hard and it breaks..

[Jim Koepke]

While I think it's good that they (LN, LV and others) will readily send you replacement, but I don't think it's a good idea to ask for replacement needlessly. It's a loss for them. While they probably consider that as some kind of investment to develop and ensure customer loyalty, asking for a replacement at the first sign of issue without trying to try to work it out is not something I'd do. If it's a genuine defect, certainly I'd ask for a replacement since no matter what I do, it wouldn't fix it, but something like plane blade, I really think it's in the area where users can attempt to fix. Maybe that's not how product was meant to be, but it happens and easily fixable without asking manufacturer to send a new one.

One of the problems with making quality products is the impossible task of performing 100% quality assurance. It is probably impossible to sharpen, mount and make shavings with every blade that goes through the maker's facility. Even if they did, the blades may not be as likely to chip out on a piece of wood that was already smoothed by the previous blade.

There is the bean counting of customer acceptability. Knowing that most customers will already understand that the blades will not perform to their best ability until after few sharpenings. Then good service support staff comes in after that. Not people who read from a script, but people who have seen and taken care of the problem on their own.

Heck, even with older blades they have to get a few trips to the stones before they are really getting up to their optimum. If nothing else because of the pitting or the uneven sharpening done to them in the past.

jim

[Sam Takeuchi]

Yes letting the company know is a good thing, especially if the companies concerned are willing to listen to their customers. As long as there are valid concerns and issues, we all should...but not something like "there is a dent on the packaging and want it replaced". Well of course...you can let them know that the box was dented, but you don't really get much out of that I suppose

[Callan Campbell]

Technically Stanley owns Black and Decker who own Delta, Porter Cable and Dewalt... Cooper Industries owns Crescent, Lufkin, Disston, and Wiss among others.
I didn't know B&D owed Delta and Porter-Cable. I only knew about Dewalt. Hmm, when did that happen

So you should have a short list of bean couters to be mad at.

IMHO, the consumers are to blame for a lot of the issue. Every time we buy something we vote with our dollars. Take the Crescent Wrench at BORG for example.
I agree, once you start the market reaction at a grass level ,then do it millions of times a month, it gets noticed at headquarters.

People walk in and see the Crescent Wrench made right here in the Carolinas hanging next to the Kolbalt Chineese Knock off at a 20-30% discount. When they walk out of the store with the BORG version they vote for a poorly made wrench that is dirt cheap... There is only so much material & labors costs you can squeeze out of a wrench and after a certian point when all the votes come back for cheap the CEO's are forced to react.

If people said I'll pay and extra buck or two for a quality tool and the Kolbalts sat on the the shelf the CEO's over there would be forced to make a better product in order to compete.

But that makes the Return Aisle line so short

[brian c miller]

I think Dewalt was bought by Black & Decker way back in the early 1960's which at that time made mostly radial arm saws and stationary equipment.

In 2004 Black & Decker purchased of the Tools Group from Pentair, Inc. which includes the Porter-Cable, Delta, DeVilbiss Air Power, Oldham Saw, and FLEX businesses.

In Nov of 2009 Stanley Works did a 4.5 Billion all stock deal to merge with Black & Decker.

That's your history lesson of the day.

[Mike Brady]

While I think it's good that they (LN, LV and others) will readily send you replacement, but I don't think it's a good idea to ask for replacement needlessly. It's a loss for them. While they probably consider that as some kind of investment to develop and ensure customer loyalty, asking for a replacement at the first sign of issue without trying to try to work it out is not something I'd do. If it's a genuine defect, certainly I'd ask for a replacement since no matter what I do, it wouldn't fix it, but something like plane blade, I really think it's in the area where users can attempt to fix. Maybe that's not how product was meant to be, but it happens and easily fixable without asking manufacturer to send a new one.

At the first WIA conference, Tom Lie-Nielsen and Robin Lee (Lee Valley) sat on a discussion panel together. The conversation drifted towards high tolerances in today's tools. Both of these gentle commented that the high tolerances found in their products are customer driven, not design driven. They went on to say that the customer actually has unrealistic expectations about tolerances and quality and that many complaints and returns prove to be bogus. I believe "operator error" would be a popular paraphrase. The demand for these tolerances can lead to higher prices too.

I'm not able to qualify the particular complaint in this post, but I have read several reviews of the new Stanley planes that complimented the quality of the irons. I have heard the local Woodcraft staff comment that some of the new planes from Stanley have be returned because of quality complaints.

Perhaps the motto "You get what you pay for" applies here; or "Quality is appreciated long after price is forgotten".

.

[David Gendron]

I think that every time we buy non American/Canadian products, we kill our industry and economy. Every time we buy low quality products, that we know are disposable after a few uses, we kill our environment. Evey time we buy something made of plastic shit we know it won't last... We know all that, but most people are going for the cheeper possible and don't care if it end up in the trash or at the return desk of the BORG, because they think they saved money and that they can get an other cheep one that they can exchange when it give up on them... Thinking how great this company is to replace that junk with a new one...
buy local, buy from privetly own company, buy North American and we will survive!

[Joel Goodman]

AMEN to that!

[Callan Campbell]

I think Dewalt was bought by Black & Decker way back in the early 1960's which at that time made mostly radial arm saws and stationary equipment.

In 2004 Black & Decker purchased of the Tools Group from Pentair, Inc. which includes the Porter-Cable, Delta, DeVilbiss Air Power, Oldham Saw, and FLEX businesses.

In Nov of 2009 Stanley Works did a 4.5 Billion all stock deal to merge with Black & Decker.

That's your history lesson of the day.

And I thank you. I didn't realize the Stanley deal with B&D was just recently. I have to think that if the new, revised Stanley planes don't really catch on, they'll probably stop trying to revive their old catalog. I don't think either Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley has anything to worry about. then again, Stanley could bring back the Fiberboard Planes just to tweak Patrick Leach on a massive level.

[David DeCristoforo]

In Toshio Odate's book, he describes the need to "tame" a new blade by sharpening it a number of times and using it for a while. Only then would the blade begin to perform to it's potential. And he was talking about "artisan" blades that cost many, many times more than the price of a new Stanley plane.

But I am thinking that if this was the issue with the Sweet Heart planes, hey... this is the new millennium! Are we to believe that there is some impediment to correctly tempering a blade so that it will perform at least satisfactorily "out of the box"? I'm sure that Stanley (or whatever conglomerate now owns the name) did not include any information about the need to "tame the blade" in order to get the best performance out of it! And if they had, how many people would be rolling on the floor holding their sides?

I have a few LN planes and I was never unhappy with the blades. Maybe they did perform better after a few months of use but not significantly enough for me to have taken note of it. I have to agree with the idea that Stanley & Co has simply been left in the dust. It's inevitable when a company abandons quality as their paradigm and bases everything on the bottom line. Sooner or later, the demand for better quality will be met by others (like LV and Veritas) and an attempt to re-enter the arena as a maker of quality tools will be extremely difficult. When a company spends decades focusing on profit, the skills and knowledge required to produce a truly top quality product can become lost. At the same time a company like LV has spent the same decades developing ways to improve the product and building a reputation for being a quality maker. Over time, the discrepancy becomes too great to overcome simply by making a corporate decision.

[michael case]

If you read the original post you'll see that the first thing I did was to grind the blade. I took off a fair amount to create the true concave grind I prefer. The blade was then lapped and beveled several times. So I don't know how much steel I'm supposed to grind away till I have a working plane. But this also begs the question - how come I've never had this problem with any other steel on all the chisels and planing irons I own including the hardware store variety Stanleys of which I own Three?

[Don Dorn]

I feel for you Micheal - and I think you've done your part. The very unfortunate part is that the plane cost is within just a few dollars of a Veritas and a few more less than a LN. It is my hope that you could return it. If the work you did on the blade is a showstopper, I'd remind them that it was only in attempt to make it the usuable tool they advertised in the first place. Is it their expectation that you stay unhappy with the way it comes?

You have done a service to many who might be thinking about one of them - it's too bad that it takes someone having to bite the bullet in order for the others to benefit. Even though it wasn't my intent to buy one, if I were, I definately would nix it now.

[Brad Patch]

I really try to avoid ranting and offering posts on my opinion rather than something useful, there is enough of that everywhere these days. However, at the risk of being offensive, let me say I would not buy a Stanley Plane or any other tool of theirs at any price. Stanley tool works owned the hand plane business. They made the best planes and revolutionized the market. They then decided to follow the business model of buying a recognized brand name built on quality and exploit it until by the 90's their planes were basically useless except as door stops. Many of us who started woodworking in the late 70's and early 80's were frustrated by this trend and turned to either Japanese tools or vintage tools just to get working tools. A few dedicated crafts people like Thomas Lie-Nielsen and Ron Hock and others answered the call and started, at much personal risk, making quality tools for our craft. Thanks to the promotion of Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking their business has grown into a nice little business. You younger wood workers are lucky to be able to buy tools that you can use right out of the box. Fine Woodworking declared years ago that all hand tools came as a kit and could not be used without considerable work. I have spent weeks lapping and truing planes just to get a mediocre tool. Even the notion here about the plane iron! Why should I spend money on a plane iron to remove an 1/8 of steel just to see if it might be workable? Now Stanley wants to price break and reclaim the products they destroyed. This happens over and over with Delta, Black and Decker, Porter Cable, Crescent and the list goes on and on.I feel an obligation to help support the folks who supported our craft and answered our needs. We cannot "WallMart" everybody! Anyway, I am an old man now and feel entitled to a few rants. I have to go chase some kids off my lawn now.

George

When I first go into woodworking three decades ago, I decided I needed a plane. Purchased what looked like a number 5 Stanley, painted blue. Never could get it to work properly, eventually threw it away. I now have some prewar Stanley type 11 planes and they work very well. I too support Lie Neilsen and having a Machinist background I am familiar with surface grinding, milling. knurling and threading. Hold a LN plane in your hand and you cannot fail to appreciate their quality. I'm sure the same thing can be said of Lee Valley, I just have no personal experience with them.

[Tony Shea]

Just got done reading this entire thread. What a refreshing thread with rants I couldn't have said better myself. Unfortunatly it seems that us who would rather spend a little extra on quality and or locally produced items are in the minority. Heck, I'm even part of the problem once in a while when I step foot in Home Dumpot. I think we're all guilty of supporting the big man. 95% of the time I will make a consious effort to support my local economy and support the small guy making better quality products. This is in reguards to all my consumer needs, grocieries, tools, etc. And when I walk in to my local market and see a couple people who prefer to buy locally compared to the thousands parked outside of Walmart, it really hits home what this society is all about. It's truley heartbreaking to see these small locals struggling to make ends meet while SuperWalmart is leveling 10 acres of beautiful forest right next door to build their monstrosity. And then to see the local society so excited about this disaster. I just don't understand what we've become. The poor economy is also helping this sad situation as locals just can't compete with prices because they didn't hire 10 year olds over seas to make their product.

Wow, got a little off topic. Others have stated this better than I and am happy to see that people still exist that want to support the small guy making his stuff locally.