View Poll Results: Should there be a set of standards for posting reviews on SMC?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    11 15.49%
  • NO

    60 84.51%
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Thread: Standards for writing Reviews ????

  1. #16
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Konopka
    I am only trying to say that we should follow a standard format in which we can copy from a sticky fill it in and post it. Again, I meant for a standard template or format to be used not rules.

    Thanks
    I hear ya Rich. I just don't think it would be something that would "further encourage" people to post their findings on various aspects of woodworking. What if we were reviewing/evaluating hand cut dovetails? or even something like, turning a bowl, applying a shellac finish. Is it exactly the same thing? No...but the overall principle is the same.

    I agree with what you have listed to a point. Customer service? On 99% of my tools, I have "never" contacted customer service unless I needed a repair part. So I couldn't really and honestly comment on customer service.

    Features lacking? This won't apply in general unless you are comparing two manufacturers products against each other. Then you have grounds to state whatever is lacking from either or both products as compared to the other.

    Competitors product? I don't belive I would want to purchase 4 cabinet style tablesaws to fullfil this comparison. Would you?

    Don't get me wrong....I'm not attacking you nor am I upset with your poll. I think it's a good idea....but I just don't think it would be condusive to more reviews by those that may fear that they can't fullfil the guidelines for posting a review. Each person here should feel comfortable with posting a review on their new tool. That way we can all learn and share info openly and within proper boundaries to where we're not pointing fingers and flaming any manufacturer.

    Very good suggestion Rich and thanks for stepping out there and posting it.
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  2. #17
    I'm against standards of any kind on reviews of tools. Everyone who writes one is doing us a service and for them to have to conform to someone elses ideas on what a review should contain would stop a lot of them before they got written.

    Jim brings up a very good point on the vendor participation. The attitude some have can turn certain folks like me away from the product before ever seeing it regardless of how it actually works in the shop or on the job. It also opens the door for personal jabs (which I admit to getting somewhat involved in recently). This is not what SMC is all about...we need to leave that behavior to the other forums.
    Last edited by Kelly C. Hanna; 10-31-2004 at 12:14 PM.

  3. #18

    standardize???

    Rich,

    You standardized your post with the poll. The results at this time are 23-3 opposing your idea. Use those results and move on instead of trying to force your opinion on others, which is what your are oposing in the first place.

  4. #19
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    282
    Just my two cents - but I'd rather have someone tell me their experience with tools being used in a shop like mine than someone telling me about a tool they've used in a perfect shop setting like the magazines can afford to have. I don't use my tools in a perfect world. And as someone else said, the people on this forum do not have a vested interest in the tools or in sharing their opinions whereas the folks at the magazine are getting paid to do the reviews. Their paycheck comes from the advertisers mostly who, of course, are tool manufacturers, etc.- and that creates bias IMBO.

    I don't want to see anyone inhibited from giving a tool review, good or bad, well written or not just because they are limited by rules or standards or guidelines or whatever. I've gleaned such good information from SMC folks and I don't want to see the free flow of information slowed by some list of things someone has to check to be sure they are in compliance with before they post.

    Just my two cents.
    KEEP THOSE REVIEWS COMING!!!

    Betsy

  5. #20
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    Apr 2004
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    Tampa, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betsy Yocum
    I don't want to see anyone inhibited from giving a tool review, good or bad, well written or not just because they are limited by rules or standards or guidelines or whatever. I've gleaned such good information from SMC folks and I don't want to see the free flow of information slowed by some list of things someone has to check to be sure they are in compliance with before they post.
    I agree.

    Plus, if somebody leaves out something I'm interested in, all I have to do is ASK ABOUT IT!
    ---------------------------------------
    James Krenov says that "the craftsman lives in a
    condition where the size of his public is almost in
    inverse proportion to the quality of his work."
    (James Krenov, A Cabinetmaker's Notebook, 1976.)

    I guess my public must be pretty huge then.

  6. #21
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    Atlanta
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    Okay Okay .

    I didn't mean to come across like a bureacratic politiican.

    End of Thread.

    I lost

    My idea stinks

    Flog me

    Stone me

    But Please don't smash my pumpkin
    Rich

    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
    - General George Patton Jr

  7. #22
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    Granbury, TX
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    Rich,

    I don't think your idea stinks, I think it was misunderstood.

    Intially, it sounded like you wanted rules and a mandatory format. Most people objected to the idea of rules. If they are going to put forth the effort to write a review, they don't want to be constrained on how to do it.

    Later in the thread, you made a good suggestion of a list of items to cover. I think this makes a lot of sense. If someone plans to write a review, the items you listed not only make sense, but if the same items were covered in two reviews of the same type of tool, the reader could make some comparisons.

    So...in summary, people here don't want to be constrained by hard and fast rules (except the one requiring us to be civil in our posts, which I think we all support), but your format suggestion of topics to cover in a review, in my opinion was a good one. Perhaps people will take it into consideration, and perhaps even voluntarily use it, in their next review.
    Martin, Granbury, TX
    Student of the Shaker style

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Albuquerque, NM USA
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    Rich,

    I think your idea got us talking about some important points, whether we agree with a standard template or not.

    I think Jim summed it up perfectly with "...is to be courtious and stay in the spirit of the conversation." As several others have mentioned, the value of the review is to get a peek into one woodworker's experience with the tool (or process...I just got hooked on Scary Sharp!) I think we would quell 90% of the tension, if we all agreed to honor the word "Review." I think that we can all agree that the spirit of the word "Review" is share an experience with a specific tool...which, if you think about, is a very generous thing to do. If someone would like to conduct a comparison, then they should make that the premise of the thread. That said, refering back to the "spirit of the conversation", it would be a comparison of TOOLS, not one man/woman's intelligence to another's, size of bank accounts, choice of profession, etc...

    I, for one, am interested in seeing more reviews. Keep 'em coming, because I can't afford to buy all these tools myself! I especially like pictures of the set-up, and all the clever adjustments and tips that make these tools more flexible and usable for us.

    Pete

    NM Scorpions 6
    Memphis River Kings 3

    Go Scorps!
    "Last year we couldn't win at home. This year we can't win on the road.
    My failure as a coach is that I can't think of any other place to play."
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  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    And now a little point I've wanted to make for a long time: I also think that vendors need to be very, very careful about how they participate in such conversations and I do welcome such participation since it shows me that they care enough to monitor what folks are saying and asking about their products. Being helpful with specifications, "how to use" details, etc., is perfectly acceptable to me. But agressive promotion crosses the line, IMHO.
    I would like to very much second Jim's comments on the participation style of vendors. There have been a couple of threads which have veered too far towards promotion, to the detriment of the quality of the thread.

    As to reviews, I think that the important thing is that they are impartial and honest. Everything I have seen so far meets that requirement.

  10. #25
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    First off, I voted 'no' on the poll.

    Ok, I know this thinking has gotten me in trouble with a few here before, but I've always maintained that a review needs some degree of comparison, if nothing else than to establish a baseline. If I told you that Dale Earnhardt, Jr. just drove a good race and averaged 170mph, that may tell you a little about his driving, but may be different if that meant he finished 20th because others averaged 180mph or better.

    Now, I'm not accusing any reviewers of doing this, but would you really put much stock in a review of a tablesaw by a person who is using a tablesaw for the first time? Or maybe that reviewer only had a junk $100 bench tablesaw before, so the $300 tablesaw will get a great review, even though in reality it doesn't even measure up to a decent contractor's tablesaw that costs a little more.

    In the end, though, this is an open forum (within the bounds of good taste), so who cares if a "review" posting turns into a "comparison"? As long as it remains civil discussion void of name-calling and brand-bashing, there could be constructive information for all gained from it. I don't believe we should set any hard and fast "standards" for reviews, but certainly those more experienced with tools will have a good feel for what makes or breaks a tool, and some of those points are listed above. Rather than "standards" we should be talking "suggested guidelines," and even that is too strong a term, I believe.

    Review to your heart's content, folks--we're mostly talking about either tools or techniques when it comes to woodworking anyway!
    Last edited by Jason Roehl; 10-31-2004 at 5:35 PM.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  11. #26
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    Wow Jason! what an avator!!! I could hardly read your post because that spinning head kept catching my eye!
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should!

    Wow!!!!!!
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Browning
    I could hardly read your post because that spinning head kept catching my eye!
    Jason's head is not spinning at all...we are all moving around it...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    Jason's head is not spinning at all...we are all moving around it...
    Jim's pretty close--I found a way to tap into all those webcams that the NSA secretly put behind the screen of your computer monitors and is constantly monitoring for felony nosepicking.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  14. #29
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    Rich....I'm one of those that voted no on your poll. I agree with Martin .....I don't want anyone constrained in their reviews other than being generally civil. I also believe that your ideas for a format are good but should be voluntarily followed.

    I'll apologize to you for anyone here that may have insulted you. That's not being civil and shouldn't occur. We all should have the right to have our own ideas and beliefs and not have to incur ridicule by those who disagree. They likewise have the right to diagree.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fitzgerald
    Rich....I'm one of those that voted no on your poll. I agree with Martin .....I don't want anyone constrained in their reviews other than being generally civil. I also believe that your ideas for a format are good but should be voluntarily followed.

    I'll apologize to you for anyone here that may have insulted you. That's not being civil and shouldn't occur. We all should have the right to have our own ideas and beliefs and not have to incur ridicule by those who disagree. They likewise have the right to diagree.
    Thanks I appreciate your openess and I really did not intend for this to unfold like it did. I was merely looking to come up with a format that everyone could use to build their reviews from. I was not looking to stifle anyones right to Free Speech

    I was not offended or felt ridiculed regarding this. I did not want this to turn political and some of the comments that were injected into the thread.

    Here are some of my ideas for a format: Please take them for what they are worth and if you have something I can use in a review then that is great. Please add them in. I appreciate everyones honesty and comments.

    Thanks


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