View Poll Results: How interested in a Uni with a Break would you be?

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  • I would buy one in heart beat as long as price was competitive to an ICS saw.

    30 32.61%
  • I would buy a sawstop ICS

    44 47.83%
  • I would never buy a saw with a break on it.

    18 19.57%
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Thread: New Uni, No Brake

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Lindley View Post
    Mr. Salav, it is my take that Karl DID LEARN from his experience. He won't be doing what he did again!
    That depends on what "that" is, if "that" is making an error, he certainly will be doing "that" again. The circumstances may change, but he surely has not learned to avoid every conceivable and inconceivable mistake.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Brogger View Post
    If you say so.


    (edit)- I'm actually glad I didn't have a Sawstop. I did zero damage to my thumb other than some ripped up skin. I did not destroy a $95 blade. I did not destoy a $XX brake cartridge. I was back to work the next day.

    and I'm wiser for it.
    There is a bit of wisdom here. Assuming the machine will protect you can allow you to drop your guard. Making 'stupid' cuts..... you can get hurt in so many ways that won't be protected/prevented by a saw brake. The fear factor keeps us on our toes.

    Having said that, a SS is in my future.
    .
    "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning".
    Robert Duval in "Apileachips Now". - almost.


    Laserpro Spirit 60W laser, Corel X3
    Missionfurnishings, Mitchell Andrus Studios, NC

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell Andrus View Post
    The fear factor keeps us on our toes.

    Exactly! Couple a 16hr day with a whole week of them, a barely do-able schedule, needing to get the job shipped the next day, and you can easily get stupid. I had lost repect, just like I have done in the past with virtually every single other piece of equipment in the shop. Having the strange dog nip at you, is a good reminder not to pet it. Doing the cut I was doing, it would have been really hard to remove my thumb as the blade was sticking out of the table less than 1/2".

    This is still probably #2 in my worst work related injuries list. #1 being when I put a chisel entirely through my finger. That was blind dumb luck nothing major happened, other than some swelling and a hole in/out. #3 being a tie for skinning the back of three fingers on a countertop vs smashing a hand in a pnuematic clamp.

    Not even in the top ten, for motocross, snow boarding, or streetbike injuries. Sure, you need to mitigate risk. My biggest failure was that I was working dog ass tired, with way to much on my mind. A saw with a brake is one lonely piece of equipment in a room full of sharp spinning objects. It breeds an enviroment where that respect is easily lost, and then transfers to other pieces of equipment.

  4. #34
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    Nothing against the Sawstop and its technology. But I am of the opinion that safety is between the ears, and not with some machine that does more to protect its company owners from potential legal action. I just purchased a new tablesaw and the Sawstop was not even in the running. I was looking for a sliding tablesaw and guess what. They don't have one. Not sure if I would be willing to purchase one, since the blade stopping mechanism would have added to the cost. Would it save my fingers. Of course. Is it a great machine for schools and newbies to the woodworking world. Yes. But sales of other saws is still robust, so there must be others out there who think like me.
    Call me happy with what I got and no regrets.

  5. #35
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    Thanks for the info on the PM/SS decision..............Rod.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    An SMC member recently purchased a SawStop because a friend was seriously injured when a coworker dropped a piece of plywood (or something) on his back while he had the table saw on. Admittedly rare, but such things happen.
    If plywood is getting dropped on your back in your shop, you have some very serious safety issues that aren't going to be solved with technology.

  7. #37
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    Sorry Fellas,

    I did not start this thread so it would become another sawstop technology for or against. There are those that don't believe the technology is for them, and those that believe it is for them. My question was, "do you think delta dropped the ball by not releasing a saw that has some type of blade brake on it."

    Personally I do. I don't buy the fact that Delta couldn't develop a different product because of all the sawstop patents. Personally I think it was delta conducting business as usual. Not trying to adapt and be prepared for the future. I had always wanted a Uni and when I bought my PCS saw. But if I knew that in the near future Delta would have been releasing a saw with a blade brake on it. I would have waited and bought Delta's new saw. I wouldn't have even considered a sawstop. But I think delta really dropped the ball. I think their sales would have exploded if they would have released a saw with and without the technology.

    It is my opion that the sawstop PCS saw without the blade brake is a better saw than the PM2000 for a variety of reasons. I believe the saw to be equal to the new Uni. Now when you take into account what the saws cost. If you don't think you need the saftey of a sawstop I think the PM is the way to go. Many times they can be purchased for 800-1000 less than a PCS and Uni. But if you are going to spend 3k-3200 for a saw I think it is a no brainer. We can debate all day weither not having your head up your but will save your fingers. But it is a proven fact that everyone has bad days and does dumb things. And if and when that day comes I don't want to loose a digit.

    I really think there are 2 different people. Those that put a price on their fingers, and those that cannot put a price on their fingers. There are many other tools in the shop that can cut off a finger. But the vast majority of the injurys happen on the table saw. That is why I believe it is so important to have the added saftey. It is not added security, but just a device to prevent a life changing injury when we have a lapse of judgment. It cannot make up for being an idiot. But as I have stated we all make bone headed decisions occasionally. And I know for a fact owning the sawstop has made me more saftey conscious than I was before I owned it. Don't ask me why, but I am more focused and more respectful of all of my tools. I am not saying an injury wont happen, knock on wood. But I am more careful now than ever before.
    Last edited by Paul Ryan; 03-03-2010 at 2:24 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    That depends on what "that" is, if "that" is making an error, he certainly will be doing "that" again. The circumstances may change, but he surely has not learned to avoid every conceivable and inconceivable mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Brogger View Post
    ....reminded me to not make really stupid cuts, in realy small pieces.
    That's what THAT is Johnny. I read it loud and clear.

    Really Johnny? There is a way to avoid every conceivable mistake? Even the inconceivable?? Sounds like a great late-night INFOMERCIAL! The first mistake would be sending money to LEARN HOW!

    Julius Caesar said: Experience is the best teacher. Many suffer wake-up calls to snap them into stark reality. They have learned the hard way! But, if one repeats the same action over and over, expecting a new, different outcome, that is called insanity.
    [/SIGPIC]Necessisity is the Mother of Invention, But If it Ain't Broke don't Fix It !!

  9. #39
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    I was told by a competing sales rep that Grizzly sells more tools than all the other manufactures combined. If true, you could only come to the conclusion that a blade break, popular with some, is not in high enough demand.

    When the blade brake was first introduced the inventor tried to get it mandated by the government for all saws. My guess now that the inventor is manufacturing his own saws, and has a good following ,they may or may not sell or license the idea.

    Looking at the poll results it seems woodworkers would buy the sawstop over the unisaw with a break (If available) so there would be little reason to for Delta to offer a break.
    Last edited by Dave Lehnert; 03-03-2010 at 3:53 PM.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  10. #40
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    I'm curious how well a the Sawstop saw, with out the stop would sell. It looks to be decently made, but so does the hunk of garbage Powermatic 66 that I bought new in 05'.

  11. #41
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    [QUOTE=Dave Lehnert;1361845]I was told by a competing sales rep that Grizzly sells more tools than all the other manufactures combined. If true, you could only come to the conclusion that a blade break, popular with some, is not in high enough demand.

    Bingo - When the SS outsells all the others and the #1 reason is the brake then the others will follow.

    There are plently of designers at Delta, etc that can comeup with a brake and they probably have it already but the demand isn't there to justify the cost, at least not right now.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert View Post

    I was told by a competing sales rep that Grizzly sells more tools than all the other manufactures combined.


    If true, you could only come to the conclusion that a blade break, popular with some, is not in high enough demand.

    The ultimate reason for both those points is price. Grizzly would have a much tougher time selling tools if their price was in line with PM and Delta, just as Hyundai would if their cars were priced the same as Honda, not that Hyundai and Grizzly don't sell solid products.



    Not picking on any particular person but is a BRAKE not a break. Although, the Sawstop blade brake does tend to break blades, so I suppose blade break or blade breaker is also accurate...

  13. #43
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    Steve Gass has already said that he would never give any company, including his exclusive rights to his blade brake technology.

    The other companies just don't think they can turn a profit by making safety their top priority.
    Exactly... he is not -giving- anything, he is willing to license technology for $$$. That fee (purported to be higher than average) + cost of the saw simply does not make sense to the bean counters at these companies.

    This kind of reminds me of when Grizzly tried to sell Baldor bench grinders. Baldor said they didn't want their business so Grizzly designed and built their own. The same will eventually happen with Sawstop, someone will find or create a market niche where they can design and build a TS + brake (new tech or licensed tech) at an attractive price point. For now, market forces are only allowing one company in this area. If OSHA law changes then we'll probably see that market change.

  14. #44
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    There is no difference in break, or brake it is just my horrific spelling, and the fact that I dont check my posts most of the time before I submit them.

    Grizzly sells so many saws because they are inexpensive. A grizzly saw doesn't have the fit and finish of a sawstop. Grizzly hasn't put the money in assembly procedures and packaging as sawstop. Sawstop has put more money into the appearance of their saws as well as some of the materials. I am not trying to stick it to grizzly but they are not the same equipment so you really cant compare.

    I believe if grizzly installed a similar brake on their saws but kept the prices down, $1800 for a cabinet saw they would continue to sell very well. Sawstop advertises the best selling cabinet saws, so I wonder what they base that on.

    I dont think you can put a brake on every saw. If you try to stick $300 technology on a bench top saw. Many people simply couldn't afford a table saw. But their definatly is a market for higher end saws. If grizzly had offered a 1023 with a brake that would be in my shop instead of the black saw, due to price. But I was forced to spend more because of the quality of the saw and limited choices.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    I'm with Kevin, I'm hard pressed to think of any real innovation over the last 30 or 40 years, except for SawStop and the European manufacturers.

    Regards, Rod.


    Innovative marketing?

    Here is a good example.
    The new Pull saws are becoming very popular in EU and with the supreme marketing soon to become popular in US and physical therapy clinics.

    Another EU innovation?
    Search ebay and you may find a 40 years old US pull saw
    for $10.00 instead of $1.000.00

    The SawStop is only one example of US innovation.
    The Tiger stop is another.
    .

    not trying to start anything but your post is simply false.
    Yes, we have some good innovations from some european manufactures
    and the same time we have some real innovation here.

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