Target Product Questions

[Brad Wood]

Hey all

I was going to send Becker a PM on all this since he seems to know a lot about the Target products, but then figured the conversation could benefit everyone.
I tried to do this at the Target forum, but I can't get an account activated over there, so I am relying on my SMC brethren


Some history...
My finishing program lately has developed into two methods
1. BLO then Varnish. May, or may not, have dye first. People have questioned why the BLO when I am doing the oil based varnish. I realize this may seem a bit redundant, but there is a difference without the BLO
2. Shellac. May, or may not, have dye first
In general I don't like think film finishes.

An Earlex 3000 turbine sprayer was recently given to me and I started thinking about lacquer. It seems to make sense because of the dry time and other benefits. I was a bit concerned about fumes though since I don't have a real finishing room. Mr. Becker made a strong argument for the EM6000. Since I have no experience with spraying or lacquer, I figured going water based makes sense... might as well just learn once.

So...
I've read a lot on the Target site (but haven't asked anything since I can't). I think I am going to get a similar feeling from my finish work by going with an application of the Ultima Clear Base stain (supposed to provide a similar response in wood as BLO does), and then the EM6000 lacquer. Like my work now, I can have dye at first if I choose to do so.

Does anyone have any concerns about this so far? ... "Gotcha's" or caveats?

So, now the real questions...
What should my sanding schedule be between the various coats?

I have a 1mm and 2mm tip for the Earlex. It sounds like I might get best results from the 1.5mm tip.... comments?

SA5 Spray/Brush retarder - "...when our finishes are being applied with turbine HVLP spray equipment". I'm guessing I fall into this category, so I should run with that?

Is the shelf live of the Ultrseal shellac similar to regular shellac? (I realize this isn't part of the schedule I mention above)

My garage is typically in the 40 to 50% humidity range, likewise inside the house. Summer is a bit lower, but not much. Are there concerns with the EM6000 application in this range?

I've read of complications with the bleeder type guns and the EM6000, but from what I read it sounds like it is just a matter of technique. Obviously I will practice and test..... any comments for suggestions?

I've got a project that I was contracted for by a friend. I really want to get this worked out, buy some Qts for testing, etc, so I can be ready for his project (which is sort of why I've given up on asking this stuff at the Target forum). All comments and suggestions welcomed.

Thank you

[Jamie Buxton]

I mostly HVLP EM8000, but EM6000 should behave in almost the same way.

I sand to 220, except on veneers that still feel fuzzy, and there I'll go to 320. I shoot two light coats of EM8000 -- wet enough that the wet finish forms a sheet, but not so wet that drips are a hazard. In my shop, the first coat is generally dry in fifteen minutes or so. After the second coat, I wait longer -- maybe an hour or even overnight -- and skitter-sand. By skitter-sanding, I mean just a very light sanding to knock down the little nits and bits of wood fiber raised by the finish. I use 1500 grit. Just a few flips of the sandpaper makes the surface feel much much smoother. Then I shoot one more coat. Generally I'm done at that point. If the surface feels rough, one more skitter-sanding is the end point. The 1500 grit is fine enough that it doesn't change the sheen of the finish.

The EM8000 is cured enough to handle in only a few minutes, but it does continue curing and getting harder for several days. Let it get through that before you really put it in service.

For some woods, I wipe on a coat of solvent-based varnish before I topcoat with the EM8000. Cherry, for instance, likes the color imparted by the varnish. Let the varnish cure well -- maybe a day or two -- before putting the waterborne on top.

I use an Accuspray -- can't help you with the Earlex.

[Jim Becker]

I spray the EM6000 (and other Target Products as well as Shellac) with my Wagner HVLP conversion gun and the "standard" #3 needle with a #2 cap. If I recall, this is about 1.4mm. Sprays beautifully. Every time. I have had no issues with humidity and have even been lucky with the products at temps slightly lower than optimal during the winter. I'm not familiar with your gun, so I can't help you there.

Most of the time, I start with BLO, seal with de-waxed shellac and then spray the waterborne finish. Occasionally, I use a water soluble dye prior to the oil.

[Brad Wood]

Jim - do you need to sand between coats with the EM6000? I know with regular lacquer you don't need to, curious about the WB stuff.

[Conrad Fiore]

Brad,
EM6000 has 100% burn-in like NC lacquer. See tech sheet.
http://www.targetcoatings.com/images/PDF/EM6000Tech.pdf

[Jim Tobias]

Brad,
I can't help with the spray gun as my system (Fuji HVLP) is different. I will say that the EM6000 is a very user friendly product(both in performance and to the lungs). My only suggestion is that you test the Ultima Stain Base and compare it wiht your typical BLO coat. I find (IMHO) that it does not quite give the same deep color that BLO provides. I would say that it is more like BLO "Lite". However, it can be easily tinted ever so slightly with transtint or other approprite (water base friendly) additives and get the same result as BLO.

Jim

[Rob Cunningham]

However, it can be easily tinted ever so slightly with transtint or other approprite (water base friendly) additives and get the same result as BLO.

Jim

What color Transtint do you add to the stain base to give it the BLO look? Honey Amber?

[Al Navas]

...I tried to do this at the Target forum, but I can't get an account activated over there, so I am relying on my SMC brethren...

Brad,

Lest people here get the wrong idea, why not give Jeff Weiss a call? He is the President of Target Coatings.

Jeff takes calls every day, unless he is out of the office, or in the Lab. And when he is out, Kara, the lady who answers the phone, jots down your name and number, and any other information you give her.


.

[Jim Tobias]

Rob,
Yes, the Honey Amber will give you a look very much like BLO. You will need to play around with proportions. The Transtint dyes are pretty intense.What is fun about it is you can start with a little of the Ultima base stain and add a drop of this and a drop of that and create a unique color/tint that matches with whatever look you want.

Jim

[Ed Gibbons]

I have brushed it and sprayed it. Both worked well. No experience with resistance to wear because both projects are new. Initial thoughts are good though.

[Brad Wood]

Thanks everyone.

Jeff did get in touch with me and I've got my account active over there.

Regarding the tint - Jim, you say a "drop of this and a drop of that"... are we really talking drops? I've been playing around with the Transtint dyes and my test batches have been a cup of water and teaspoon sized portions of the transtint.

I've got honey amber along with a few others, so I will certainly play around with this, sort of looking for a starting point though

[Jim Tobias]

Brad,
I was speaking figuratively abot the drops. JUst making the point that you can mix and create any tones you want through experimentation.
However, it does not take much at all to tint the Ultima Stain Base from Target to add some more "BLO-like warmth". Unless, you are mixing up a quart or more. As with all dyes, it depends on how much of product you are mixing up as to how much dye you would add.

Jim