sanding drawer fronts with a drum sander

[Robert Reece]

I recently made some drawer fronts and then sprayed them white (I'll post about this on another thread). They look quite good, particularly the MDF panels. However, the rails and stiles are poplar and I have learned that stock preparation is KING! My rails and stiles and have machine marks that were undetectable to me during the sanding phase. But after a couple of coats of primer, I could see spots where the planer or joiner left marks. Also the joint between the rail and the stile had a tiny little gap that shows up like a sore thumb. You can see both issues in the attached picture. You have to look closely at the right side of the stile to see the planer/joiner marks.

I am not worried about these drawer fronts as they are good enough, but for the next set I am thinking I should probably use my Performax drum sander. It's not the oscillating kind. I am wondering if I am correct that running drawer fronts through the sander will eliminate these machine marks. If so what is the grit schedule? I am concerned that the stiles are going to be sanded across the grain which will leave them rough. Maybe that doesn't matter since I sand between coats.


Also, any tip on closing up that little gap would be helpful. Maybe my stub tenon is just a hair to long so I couldn't close up that gap. Or maybe I just need more clamp pressure.

[Quinn McCarthy]

If you sand the painted drawer fronts with the drum sander you will risk gumming up the sand paper.

I would just scuff the dips with some 80 grit sandpaper and then fill the ddips and gaps with Bondo. Then sand flush with a RO sander. Gradually work to finer grits.

Quinn

[Robert Reece]

Sorry, I wasn't clear on my original post. I am not trying to fix the current set of drawer fronts. They are good enough, but I am curious about making the next set better. so I will be sanding raw wood with my drum sander.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Robert,
Though I am absolutely certain you would have removed the planer marks with your drum sander, I am sure you realize the drum sander can leave it's own images on the wood. Quite obviously, any change in feed speed caused bu belt slippage on the work piece will allow the drum to spend a spliy second longer on one portion of the wood. Even soft and hard areas will cause depressions. I am a firm believer in belt sanding. I know most woodworkers who do not use them will say they can be damaging and they are correct. Using a belt sander well is a learned skill but a very useful skill to possess. Try this experiment. Go ahead and drum sand some test pieces of popular. Sand them with your normal progression using your random orbital. Then use your belt sander with 120 grit. If you don't have one, borrow one for an experiment. Let the weight of the tool be all the applied pressure. As you go off the ends feel the weight of the machine balance toward the portion of the sanding platen that is still on the wood. Then sand with the random orbital but begin with 150 then 220. Allly paint or stain to both tests and see what you think.
fmr

[Joe Chritz]

That is the reason that painted projects are almost always more money for finishing than stain/clear coat. Any imperfection shows up every time.

One big advantage though is that you just fill any gaps and paint. I normally use wood filler (currently on a tube of elmer's I think) but bondo, joint compound or spakle or any other number of things works.

FWIW, every 5 panel piece I make goes through a drum sander. It is easier to sand out the cross grain scratches than to worry about getting everything flat and even with a ROS. I mill my stock at .800, do all the machining and assemble. A couple passes through the sander and they are all at 3/4, flat and ready for sanding with the ROS.

Joe

[Robert Reece]

So it sounds like I can sand the 5 panel piece using a 120 grit belt and then sand up through my grits with my ROS. That sounds a lot easier than changing belts on the drum sander.

Thanks I will give it a try.

[Terry Welty]

I use a dual action (D.A) Sander... If you're in need of some very aggressive sanding, then the belt sander is the tool of choice, but unless something is wrong with your planer or I'm not understanding your problem, a D.A. sander should get your pieces baby-butt smooth. You can start with 80 grit and move to 150 then 220. If needed hand sand a little with grain with a block to finish. On pieces that are to be painted,I like to use old fashion Lacquer Putty for cracks and minor surface defects, it's super easy to sand and it dries quickly paint sticks to it readily... (it's basically super thick primer in a tube)... You can find it in autobody supply stores.

[Al Willits]

I use my drum sander probably to much, but no matter what I use it on, it requires some more work with a hand sander/ROS sander, 100 in the drum, then 120, 150, 180, and 220 gives a nice finish, sometimes 320 is used also.

Changing grits on the drum sander is far to time consuming for me and I didn't really like the results as well as using a sander.


Al

[Chip Lindley]

Robert, sounds like you must spend some time fine-tuning your technique on planer and router, before worries about methods of sanding.

Sharp planer knives, and reading the wood grain are key to good results with stock preparation. If very wild-grain pieces will be used, plane over-thickness, then run through your drum sander to final thickness and remove tearout.

With all stock at final thickness, with a consistent surface, there remains your router or shaper technique in profiling. Feed speed must be constant, and again, grain orientation is all important. Wild grain may produce tearout. If painted, the areas can be filled, as mentioned before hand. but for wood which will be left natural or stained, anything less than near perfect is unacceptable.

An outboard fence allows consistent feeding of rail/stile stock, rather than holding against a traditional fence. Good hold-downs or a power feeder go a long way toward consistent results, although the *armstrong* method can and does work when consistent feeding by hand is practiced.

Rethink all your processes and figure out your weak points in cabinet door making. There is much info here at SMC if you search.

[Robert Reece]

Robert, sounds like you must spend some time fine-tuning your technique on planer and router, before worries about methods of sanding.

Sharp planer knives, and reading the wood grain are key to good results with stock preparation. If very wild-grain pieces will be used, plane over-thickness, then run through your drum sander to final thickness and remove tearout.

With all stock at final thickness, with a consistent surface, there remains your router or shaper technique in profiling. Feed speed must be constant, and again, grain orientation is all important. Wild grain may produce tearout. If painted, the areas can be filled, as mentioned before hand. but for wood which will be left natural or stained, anything less than near perfect is unacceptable.

An outboard fence allows consistent feeding of rail/stile stock, rather than holding against a traditional fence. Good hold-downs or a power feeder go a long way toward consistent results, although the *armstrong* method can and does work when consistent feeding by hand is practiced.

Rethink all your processes and figure out your weak points in cabinet door making. There is much info here at SMC if you search.

I want to be open minded and learn something if I can, but if you look at the picture you can see how small the marks are. And it seems like most everybody sands their parts after machining. I'm having trouble seeing where I can completely eliminate machine marks by improving my technique.

My joiner has freshly sharpened knives that boards come of looking and feeling smooth. My planer has a shelix head and it too produces boards that look and feel good. Neither machine snipes.

I think what I did wrong was hand sand the drawer fronts instead of using my ROS. Hand sanding just isn't aggressive enough to get out those little marks.