Stanley #7 mouth adjustment?

[Tony Shea]

I just picked up a new replacement iron from LN for my old Stanley #7 bench plane. I honed it up and put it in the Stanley. Now I have developed and issue I didn't even think about. The iron is now to far forward in the mouth and actually just bumps the front edge of the mouth before it pops below the sole. I'm sure this is a common issue but one that I am not real sure how to fix. I tried adjusting the frog a bit back but can only go so far before I loose a good seat of the iron to the frog due to the back side of the mouth opening. Is my option to file the front edge of the mouth until I get the clearance I need? Is there some kind of tips in doing this or a tutorial I've missed somewhere? I know this has got to be the right place to ask this question. I was pretty dissapointed to find this out as I was really looking forward to using this plane more with an iron that is actually useable.

[Nelson Howe]

Check out jim k's fettling thread on the wisdom/faq section in this forum. I believe he prefers to file the back of the mouth first.

Nelson

[Sam Takeuchi]

As far as frog go, don't set it any further than the back of the mouth, meaning that ramp frog and back of the mouth aligns, but not any more than that. I think even for LN replacement blade, blade bevel still isn't wide enough to clear the back of the mouth.

To grind the front part of mouth, take a square, and then scribe a line on the sole to set how much you want to grind. It's better if you don't try to take too much in one go.

And then set the plane on the vise or however you feel comfortable, take a file and start grinding until you reach the scribed line. Generally it is recommended to file the front of mouth slightly tapered, so it looks like it opens up upward. In the range of 10 - 15 degrees should be good enough. Don't need to be too precise there. It simply helps to eject wood shavings.

It's pretty normal for older planes to have quite tight mouth and grind mouth open is pretty common. Filing the mouth open shouldn't take too long, it goes quite quick if it's not too much.

[Prashun Patel]

I did what Sam advises on a jack plane. I read an article in FWW that advises beveling the leading edge of the mouth on bench planes anyway to minimize chip clogging.

I was amazed how quickly a good file can do this.

Your problem is common, as the stock blades are notoriously thinner than good replacements. Yr lucky your cap iron and screw still lock down properly... DAMHIKT..

[Jim Koepke]

Check out jim k's fettling thread on the wisdom/faq section in this forum. I believe he prefers to file the back of the mouth first.

Nelson

Nelson is correct about my opinion. If this is a type 9 or later, there is a bit more metal in the center to remove. Check to see how far the frog can move to the back and still seat properly before doing this. It can be less work to remove metal from the front of the mouth, especially with the later planes.

My opinion is based on the frog usually being able to move backwards more than it is possible for the blade to seat properly. Put an even layer of tape on the frog for protection of the frog and to guide the file when doing this to get the angle on the base the same as on the frog.

I also bevel the front of the mouth, not always the whole surface.

My type 7 #7 has a tight mouth with a Hock blade. It can still take a medium shaving without clogging. My type 6a #8 has more room with a Hock blade. It gets the call when thick shavings are preferred.

jim

[Tony Shea]

How would I go about identifying what type plane this is? I never really got into the whole indentification process of old Stanley planes as this really is kind of irrelevent for my purposes. I'm not a collector but a user. The only style I can confidently distinguish is the BedRock design. Other than that I know nothing. But now I am learning that identification is not just handy as a collector but is nice to know the ins and outs of the design I'm using. Guess I need to open my mind a little a learn what my Stanley's really are.

I recently came away from the tool barn with a #6 that was in great condition and had a flat sole. I bought it for a good price. But I notice the adjustment knob was made of plastic. Does this do anything in helping indentify what type this #6 is? It's a great user for sure. I do wish the adjustment knob was metal though.

[Tony Shea]

My frog does not look like the one you used in the tutorial Jim. Towards the mouth of the frog it actually seperates and into two ramps with it stradling a peice on the base of the body. If that helps id at all.

[Sam Takeuchi]

That doesn't sound like a Bedrock frog. Bedrock frog and base mating surface. It's not my picture, just pulled it out of someone else's page. I hope it's okay.

If it's got plastic wheel, perhaps it's WWII era Stanley. WWII era planes tends to have all sorts of mixed parts thrown in together and don't really follow typical 'type' progression found in planes from other period. Check this page for detailed explanation of different characteristics of each type.

[Tony Shea]

I didn't say I had a bedrock. I was just simply stating I could indentify a bedrock style plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Tony,

The plastic adjusting knob is one of the easiest items to spot indicting the plane was made during WW II.

The bottom of the frog being split as you describe indicates type 9 or later.

Johnny Kleso has a type study on his site rexmill.com that helps to explain the differences.

There are also other sites to identify when a plane was made.

Some prefer planes from particular date ranges. It does not mean they are really any better than other dates. It is kind of like classic cars. A person who loves the 1954 Chevy is different from those who love the 1956 Chevy.

jim

[Sam Takeuchi]

Ah yes, sorry I misunderstood it.

[Tony Shea]

Thanks a bunch for the advise and links for identification and fettling. Thanks to the fettling tutorial I just got done with a basic fettle on this plane and she is taking beautiful shavings now with a perfect space for shavings to come through. With the Lie Nielson iron this thing feels beautiful. I'm glad I asked the question as I would have just gone to the front of the mouth. Instead I moved the frog back just a whisker and taped over it. I filed the back of the mouth at the same angle of the frog and got the clearance I need and at the same time gave a better bedding for the iron to sit on. I really made a difference. I also cleaned the bottom of the frog up where it seats as there was a bit of rust on one side. Just a couple passes on some 120 paper on glass and it seats nicely. I didn't go through lapping the face of the frog as I didn't want to get into the lateral adjuster pins, they looked like a pain as they were mushroomed on both sides. I would've had to file them down. But the frog face is acceptable as is. Anyways, what an amzing resource this site is and what great help you all are. I knock that out it less than an hour and posted the question in less than 5 hours ago. Can you tell I'm excited by my newly renovated jointer.

Oh and it is def and type #9 as it has the odvious patent dates behind the frog printed on it.

[lowell holmes]

I opened the mouth of a 605 bedrock with small flat file. I applied ble machinists blue and scribed the line I wanted to file to. It was successful and took about 30 minutes.
I have a Hock iron and a Clifton chip breaker in it.

[Jim Koepke]

The frog can be face lapped with the lateral adjuster and the depth adjuster left in, it is just a bit trickier and less precise.

The patent dates are the same for a type 9 and type 10. The type 10 has the frog adjustment screws.

There may be differences between early and late type 9s.

Glad to hear of your success. My opinion is if a plane is making great shavings and smooth wood in its wake, then it doesn't need immediate attention. Use it for a while to determine what if anything needs to be done to improve performance.

jim

[lowell holmes]

Some of us like the 57 chevy.