Garnet Shellac on Air-Dried Black and kiln-dried Walnut

[Brent Ring]

I am starting finishing on the two different species of walnut listed in the the title. The beginning of the plan includes applying dewaxed garnet shellac as a grain filler/sealer, and then thinned Waterlox as a wipe-on finish.

I have noticed that the garnet shellac is drying with a yellowish tone. Is this normal or expected? I would have expected a bit of reddish tone.

I can thin down and wipe off with DNA, or sand, but I wondered if anyone else has had this experience with Garnet shellac. It was mixed from flakes.

[Howard Acheson]

Yes, garnet shellac is a sort of deep amber/brownish color. For a lighter color use an amber shellac. Another option is the use Zinsser Seal Coat. It's a blond, 100% dewaxed pre-mixed shellac.

Waterlox Original is also a relatively dark amber finish due to its phenolic resin base.

Test out your complete finishing schedule on scrap to see exactly how it will look.

[Jeff Jewitt]

Bona or Ruby shellac will have more of a "red" color to it. Garnet is almost bronze in color and definitely doesn't have any orange/red to it.

I question your use of shellac as a grain filler. You might succeed in filling the grain after applying numerous coats and cutting back, but it will continue to shrink and the pores will re-appear after 6 months to a year. You are better off using an alkyd (oil) based paste filler over the shellac sealer.

[Brent Ring]

I will use a filler for the top, but thought shellac would be ok as a sealer/light grain filler for the chairs.

What is your suggested finished schedule for walnut, Jeff?

[Henry Ambrose]

You're making this way too hard.
Do a few experiments on scrap pieces.
Try some varnish (like Waterlox) wet sanded in to fill the grain.
Then a few more coats on top of that.

I'd give the whole thing (table and chairs) one coat of tinted Waterlox sanded in and then build a few more plain coats on top of that. It'll look great and pull all the wood shades together. If you do have some parts that are very much different then individual attention should be given to those areas before anything else.

A nice real varnish finish is the best thing you can do for an object that will get used. It takes work. Everything else is a shortcut (longcut) to hide inferior materials and make them look like something better than they are. If your example or paradigm is the look of factory made furniture you are barking up the wrong tree as a wood worker. You're not a factory.

[Pete McMahon]

You're making this way too hard.

If your example or paradigm is the look of factory made furniture you are barking up the wrong tree as a wood worker. You're not a factory.

How is he barking up the wrong tree? He is in the learning stage. Filling the pores of wood to create a full, formal finish is hardly restricted to a factory. Isn't that what you accomplished with a wet sand technique?
Wet sanding is one way to fill the pores, filling with a pore filler is another. Each has it's merits.
One of the keys and or drawbacks to asking questions is getting a wide variety of answers and opinions. One person told him to layer a fat coat of shellac and cut it back. That's fine for a while but as Jeff told him it will continue to shrink and leave a hungry look down the road.

One definitive plus to using pore filler vs. wet sanding is having the ability to color the pores in any manner you choose.

Without a doubt making samples and practicing is the best way to determine personal preferences.

[Neal Clayton]

I am starting finishing on the two different species of walnut listed in the the title. The beginning of the plan includes applying dewaxed garnet shellac as a grain filler/sealer, and then thinned Waterlox as a wipe-on finish.

I have noticed that the garnet shellac is drying with a yellowish tone. Is this normal or expected? I would have expected a bit of reddish tone.

I can thin down and wipe off with DNA, or sand, but I wondered if anyone else has had this experience with Garnet shellac. It was mixed from flakes.

as you wipe on more coats, it will get more red. plus the waterlox is about the same color, so will darken it again when you add that as a top coat.

pick a scrap piece and keep going, and see if you like it after ~4 coats.

it will change as you add more coats.

[Brent Ring]

How is he barking up the wrong tree? He is in the learning stage. Filling the pores of wood to create a full, formal finish is hardly restricted to a factory. Isn't that what you accomplished with a wet sand technique?
Wet sanding is one way to fill the pores, filling with a pore filler is another. Each has it's merits.
One of the keys and or drawbacks to asking questions is getting a wide variety of answers and opinions. One person told him to layer a fat coat of shellac and cut it back. That's fine for a while but as Jeff told him it will continue to shrink and leave a hungry look down the road.

One definitive plus to using pore filler vs. wet sanding is having the ability to color the pores in any manner you choose.

Without a doubt making samples and practicing is the best way to determine personal preferences.

That is definately true. I am in the learning phase, and looking for solid advice, so I appreciate all the comments and help. I am testing some things on scraps and in locations that are not visible, insides of chair stretchers, etc. I am still going to test a 50/50 mix of BLO/MS as a first coat, let dry, then Waterlox on top, and see what I like best, on top of the other selections. I am pretty committed to the Waterlox as well.

Can you wet sand a BLO mix?, and will it fill grain as well?

[Henry Ambrose]

snipped......

Can you wet sand a BLO mix?, and will it fill grain as well?

Yes, but it will take lots longer to dry. Since you are in very dry and hot Utah that might not be too big a deal. Then there's the part about how BLO never really dries hard. Put some on a piece of glass and let it sit for a week. I bet it won't be hard - not like varnish.

What's happening when you do the "sand in the finish while its wet" routine is you are generating filler (sanding dust mixed with finish) and wiping it into the pores all at once. The filler you generate will match the overall tone of the wood, which is the best thing. Its more work than wiping on a store bought filler.

There's going to be some shrinkage of almost anything you put on the wood to fill the grain. Six months from now you might have a bit of slightly open grain showing. This depends somewhat on how much "build" you apply.

[Jeff Jewitt]

If you are using the Waterlox don't bother with the BLO. There's plenty of oil in the W/L.
We always used to call a wet-sanded oil finish a "slush-fill" because it didn't quite fill the grain all the way and left a natural look to the wood that some customers prefred over a formal - full-filled look done with paste filler and lacquer

1. Apply one thin coat of W/L and wipe the excess - let dry overnight.
2. Apply a puddle of W/L on the surface and using 600 grit wet dry paper sand the oil which picks up some of the dried oil and sawdust and helps to fill the grain. Wipe the excess off and let dry.
3. Repeat if you want or just apply more coats of oil untill you like it.

[Prashun Patel]

Don't wetsand the BLO mix. It won't dry well, and you risk damaging yr topcoat as it continues to dry.

In fact, If it were me, I'd skip the BLO altogether. Waterlox has an amber color to it and will make yr walnut plenty dark. It will harden good and quickly, so it's a good choice for wetsanding.

[Brent Ring]

You guys are all awesome with the great info you share. Thanks for all the advice. I have a few options to try, and I will post the pics and what schedule I chose when I post the final pics of the completed project.

Thanks so much!

[Henry Ambrose]

Jeff, Shawn and Neal -- excellent advice!

Brent, be sure to post some pics of the project.