Rubbing out Lacquer

[John Pratt]

I am appying lacquer to a hope chest and have put on 5 coats. I lightly sanded between each coat with 320 grit. Even though I have sanded between coats, each subsequent coat is not as smooth as I would like the final coat. After I put on the last coat, what should I rub it out with to get a smoother final finish. Caveat: I don't what to go as far as the padding technique and I am not concerned if it looks like a store window dining room table, I just want a smooth presentable final top coat.

[Joe Chritz]

This may be an obvious question but is the roughness from the finish and not from the wood itself? As in open grained wood like oak, it never is truly smooth unless it is filled.

If the roughness is stuff in the finish you can rub it out a number of ways but essentially they all are sanding really fine and continuing on up the grits until you get where you want to be. Depending on how the orange peel or other roughness is you can start as high as 400 or 600, up to 1500 + and finish with pumice and rotten stone for a gloss buff.

Edit: It needs to be cured, not just dried before you start. Each finish is different on how long that is. The only one I know the time on for sure is Emtech 6000 because I just looked it up and it is 100 hours.

Joe

[John Pratt]

I apologize; I really should have put in a little more information. I am spraying Promar hi-bild lacquer from the local Sherwin Williams with an Earlex 5000 HVLP. The hope chest is Cherry with Walnut and Bloodwood trim/accents sanded to 320 grit. I started the finish with a coat of BLO which I wiped down and let dry for 7 days. Then sealed that with a good coat of #2 Shellac which dried for two days, and sanded with 400 grit before I applied the first coat of Lacquer. The orange peel isn't too bad, but it is definitely noticeable to me. By going with the progressively finer grits, how much of the gloss will I lose? The "customer" (SIL) wants this to have a high gloss. I have rubbed out varnish before and lost some of the gloss, but I have always top coated with wax so it wasn't an issue after buffing. I do not intend to put wax on this after the final coat of lacquer.

[Scott Holmes]

Roughness in the finish is either poor prep of the wood or improper spraying technique...

You want an even wet coat, no runs, no drips; dry shooting (sandpaper rough) and too fast is poor technique.

[John Pratt]

I think I am getting an even wet coat (but then again, I am not an expert at this). no runs, drips, etc, just getting a little orange peel effect.

[Scott Holmes]

OK more info helps.

Orange peel is too much finish; move faster or reduce the liquid flow; or both.

Sand it flat; then, shoot another coat or two.

Lacquer is hard; hard finishes can be buffed up to high gloss. Varnish especially polyurethane varnish is tough but not very hard so it will not buff up.

Pumice and rottenstone is the old-school way to buff to gloss. Now-a-days the micromesh sanding paper goes from 1500, 1800, 2000,...8000, 12,000 grit. Then, auto swirl remover and you have gloss. Couple of days (72 hours) to completely dry is good for lacquer before buffing.

[John Pratt]

OK more info helps.

Orange peel is too much finish; move faster or reduce the liquid flow; or both.

Sand it flat; then, shoot another coat or two.

Lacquer is hard; hard finishes can be buffed up to high gloss. Varnish especially polyurethane varnish is tough but not very hard so it will not buff up.

Pumice and rottenstone is the old-school way to buff to gloss. Now-a-days the micromesh sanding paper goes from 1500, 1800, 2000,...8000, 12,000 grit. Then, auto swirl remover and you have gloss. Couple of days (72 hours) to completely dry is good for lacquer before buffing.

So...sand the previous coats to a good flat surface, not neccessarily off, then reduce flow. Question - When I shoot varnish or poly (the Army loves poly on everything so I have to use it a lot) I don't have problems with thinned material coming out of the gun, but with the lacquer it tends to "spit" more instead of a fine mist. Can I thin this down more than 5-10% to eliminate some of that?

[Bill Davis]

I am appying lacquer to a hope chest and have put on 5 coats. I lightly sanded between each coat with 320 grit. Even though I have sanded between coats, each subsequent coat is not as smooth as I would like the final coat. After I put on the last coat, what should I rub it out with to get a smoother final finish. Caveat: I don't what to go as far as the padding technique and I am not concerned if it looks like a store window dining room table, I just want a smooth presentable final top coat.

I personally believe based on my experience that sanding between coats is not as important as what you do to the final coat. That is not to say sanding between coats is worthless, only less important IMO. I sand between coats - a bit to remove major blemishes. I like your 5 coat approach as I have had success because it gives you the buildup to allow you to get that beautifully smooth final appearance. I like to wet sand with very fine wet/dry sandpaper using a mix of mineral spirits and mineral oil. I'm sure there are other combinations that will also work. The main advantages of wet sanding IMO is to lubricate the surface and keep the paper from clogging. And there is no dust only a gooey yucky liquid paste. Keep some good ole rags handy. I wipe as often as necessary to guage progress and know when to quit. How fine of paper I use depends on where I want the appearance in terms of sheen.

Here's a project I did using 6 sprayed coats of lacquer and lots of elbow grease (easier on flat surfaces for sure).

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

John,
I spray lacquer for all my finishes. I also rub all my finishes. Spraying takes a lot of practice. You can help a less than perfect finish by working hard at rubbing it out but the whole process gets easier as your spray technique improves. Orange peel happens to all novice finishers and lots of experienced ones. It is difficult to rub out since you must basically rub down to an even layer. I always scuff between coats after I build some finish. You don't want to sand too thin a finish or you will rub through it into the color.
Play with your gun settings and volume of thinner until you achieve the results you want. Either test your gun on a piece of glass or on a well sanded board you have already sprayed finish on. Sand it glass smooth and tent your spray pattern on it. Don't thin too much or your finish will dry before it has a chance to smooth out. Don't spray too think or the finish may wrinkle. Once you have the proper coverage based on thickness of the finish, and it is as smooth as you can achieve, let it harden. The longer it hardens the better it will rub out.
Scott is correct about using the foam sanding pads. You can buy them from lots of sources. Buy 500 grit through 4000. Here is a trick to remember. Water used as a lubricant the sanding medium makes it cut faster. Be careful using water. It is easy to rub away too much. Mineral oil used as a lubricant slows makes the abrasive cut slower. I always use mineral oil from 1000 grit up. Some people like auto abrasives to remove the final swirls. I like Beheln's Renaissance wax. Since I always spray gloss then cut and deepen the shine in the rubbing out process, I like the final soft glow I get with that product.
Remember, you need not build a thick finish to have a deep finish. A natural looking lacquer finish is only a couple mils thick but looks a foot deep.
fmr

[John Pratt]

I appreciate all the great responses. I guess I will wait for a couple days to let what I have cure a little and then get back after it. Thanks for the help.

John