Help choosing a substrate...

[Richard Magbanua]

Hey everyone,
I'm making an interior sign which will be 6' x 6' to be hung on a red wall.



I want to cut out the logo in black and apply the colors on top with gold/white vinyl. This will be hung so that it is about 3" proud of the wall.

I'm planning on using 1/4" black acrylic for the substrate in two parts to be hung using a cleat. I'm thinking acrylic because I don't have to paint it, it's vinyl ready and it should cut well using a jigsaw and proper blade. However, it's expensive and heavy.
Would you suggest some other material for this sign? Perhaps another type of plastic or coated foam?
I've never worked with acrylic as far as cutting or shaping. I would appreciate any tips or suggestions.

Thanks a lot!
-Mr. Small Sign Shop

[Joe Pelonio]

The size is the problem, not many materials come wide enough for 6'x6' in
one piece, and a seam is unsightly, especially indoors where it's seen up close. I would definitely consider a composite like Dibond, which has thin aluminum sandwiched over a solid plastic (polyethylene ) core. It does come in black, but the largest I have seen is 5'x10'. With your sign standing off the wall you can use a thin strip on the back over the seam, but I'd suggest going to 5' x 5' for a neater look. While it's an expensive material it's still cheaper than acrylic and far easier to cut, lighter, and will not break. It comes in thicknesses 2mm to 6mm. It and other brands are available at
most sign supplies. I'd also prefer using MDF before acrylic, it may not be much lighter but will be a lot easier to cut without breaking, however more labor in sanding and painting, especially the edges.

[Richard Magbanua]

Thanks Joe,
My sign supply guy just suggested Dibond as well and I may go with that. It's a good choice at half the cost! As far as the seam, I'm planning on either making it diagonal through the middle, piecing it together by attaching the halves to plywood in the back and then hiding virtually all of it with vinyl over the top, or making the middle circle separate with the four other parts attached behind it. Well, I hope it works out ok. Thanks again.

[Joe Pelonio]

With that design I'd place the circle on top, so it stands out a little.

I recently did two circles for a car dealer logo. I used a strong string knotted on one end in a hole in some duct tape in the center, the other end tied to the sabre saw and it was pretty good. Laird Plastics in Seattle can cut the stuff to shape with a 5'x10' bed CNC from your vector file, if there's one
near you. I have used them for jobs when I need lots of sheets of it cut to specific sizes, saves lots of time and with perfect smooth edges.

[Richard Magbanua]

Yes, I think the circle on top would look great and give it some depth. Maybe connect it all with plywood underneath somehow for the depth and cleat system. May need to check on the CNC possibilities.
I was thinking about a router with a trammel. Have you tried this before? Maybe a with spiral down-cut bit?
Thanks again for the tips!

[Joe Pelonio]

It does rout well, and a trammel would work well for the circle, but for more intricate shapes you can't beat the CNC.

[Richard Magbanua]

Well, I checked with a local sign shop about CNC routing and I'm glad I did. Wagner Signs in Indianapolis was a pleasure to work with! I met with Todd Wagner this morning and they worked with me using my files to design what I think will be a great sign. The recommendation was to use PVC sheet and rout out the shapes on the CNC and install it so it will have three levels to its depth. I also got some good tips on mounting it on the wall. This really cuts down on the hassle on my end with the whole thing and I end up with a bit more in my pocket. I'll be sure to post pics when I'm done (hopefully) next week.

[Richard Magbanua]

Well, I finally finished and installed the sign and I think it turned out pretty nice. The PVC was easy to work with and was relatively light. I used a combination of heavy duty double stick tape and screws to install it about fourteen feet high on an interior wall.
Even though it was recommended by many people to use silicone as an adhesive for adhering pvc together I used CA glue (Gorilla brand super glue). I tested this with scraps and it was by far the strongest and seems to be a permanent bond. I used it to glue the spacer blocks to the backs of the sign's sections.
It's nice to have a forum with experienced sign makers to go to for good advice fast whenever I need it. Thanks for the help!!!

[Larry Bratton]

Wow! Beautiful job Richard.
Be aware that cements made for acrylic, i.e. Weldon 16, Weldon3 will also work with PVC. They are solvent type cements and actually melt the materials or "weld" them so to speak. I use them to glue acrylic to pvc and they work very well. I'll try that CA glue you used, thanks for the tip.