Occams shovel and when the dust settles

[Bruce Seidner]

I have given up on the game of Twister I have been playing trying to fit 6" pipe around the existing HVAC, ect. in my basement/garage workshop.

I am resolved to digging a hole on the other side of my workbench in the dirt crawl space that will make room and fit the dust box under the cyclone and create the head room for the duct out of the cyclone to the side mounted blower. It is just the most straight forward way to get er done. Parsimony at work.

My next unanswerable question relates to how dust settles beneath a cyclone. My thinking is to dig a hole deep enough to place a box that will support the cyclone and give clearance for the exit pipe to the blower from the floor joists above. The lid of the rectangular box will be fixed in place under the cyclone to half the distance of the box. The other half will seal air tight but be removable.

My thought is to have a tightly fitting tall rectangular plywood container that slides into place under the cyclone inside this outer box. When it is in place I will close the lid on the outer box. When I need to empty the trash container I will open the lid to the buried box, slide the trash box out from under the cyclone to the open area and lift it out to empty.

My assumption is that as long as the overall box is sealed that the dust will fall into the trash box. I don't think there is a need to fill the rest of the space. I was also thinking that I could just zip tie a garbage bag to a pipe bolted to the outlet of the cyclone saving me the trouble of constructing another box within the buried box. But I am unsure about the behavior of a soft bag beneath the cyclone even if it is in a sealed box.

I tend to think a bit outside the box and wanted to do a reality check with more experienced sawdust practitioners. Is this going to work?

[Brian Kincaid]

My next unanswerable question relates to how dust settles beneath a cyclone...My assumption is that as long as the overall box is sealed that the dust will fall into the trash box. I don't think there is a need to fill the rest of the space. I was also thinking that I could just zip tie a garbage bag to a pipe bolted to the outlet of the cyclone saving me the trouble of constructing another box within the buried box. But I am unsure about the behavior of a soft bag beneath the cyclone even if it is in a sealed box...Is this going to work?

Bruce,
I am assuming you are using a pull-through like most cyclones (eg fan and motor on top of cyclone).

Oneida sells a vacuum kit for their drum liner to keep the bag in place when using a barrel. I assume this is to make up for any leaks that might be present in the barrell between the bag and the cyclone drain(?). This is just speculation but the kit exists.

What I can offer as far as facts is that when the debris exits the cyclone into the dust bin it is still 'spinning' and will go to the edges of the drum/box. I'm not exactly sure what you had in mind, but if you have a square box with a round trash can you are going to fill up the corners of the box before you fill up the trash can which will make a mess unless you account for it.

Back to your zip-tie question if you have ANY leak in your drum/box your trash bag will be sucked up into the cyclone body probably finding its way into the impellor for maximum comedy. I would recommend NOT this. If you are stuck on the bag idea you can probably come up with a way to keep the bag in place without forcing it to seal to the drum/box so it would not have a reason to find its way into the cyclone body.

-Brian

[Bruce Seidner]

Maximum Comedy should be copy righted. That is perfect. I will settle for a removable box that fits perfectly in the buried box. It will slide into place beneath the cyclone and seal to the cyclone. In addition the buried box will seal. 3/4" plywood when squared up and flush can be pretty snug.

Thank you for your experience, strength and hope. I get it and am eager to start digging my hole and assembling my dust coffin. The bag is no longer on the table. As Bob Dylan remarked, you don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows. I won't need more reference to Subterranean Homesick Blues, my marching orders are clear.

[Brian Kincaid]

Maximum Comedy should be copy righted...

I had a little fun with the thought of a bag wrapped around my impellor and the 3 hour disassembly/reassembly that would no doubt be required to remove it.

-Brian

[Bruce Seidner]

I am having fun building my dust coffin as I think about the "fun" of disentangling the torn, melted, and resistant plastic I WON'T be dealing with.

I found an 18" square 45 gallon rigid plastic "liner" in the Grainger catalog for $137, did a quick eBay search and found a guy with a bunch of these Rubbermaid 3567 18x18x19 45 gallon Rigid lingers for $24. I will have the coffin built and buried in the near future. I am posting this because I think they would probably do a good job in above ground applications as well.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Any chance of some photos of the situation you're dealing with (out of curiosity) and of the dust bin you make (for design example as I think I'm going to end up going that route as well).

[John Schreiber]

You are prepared for the police visit when you start burying coffins in your crawl space aren't you? I hope they can tell the difference between a planer and a wood chipper (Fargo reference).

[Bruce Seidner]

This is all ruff and tumble stuff unlikely to be showcased in Fine Woodworking. But it is what working stiffs with families come up against and have to adapt around. So, sure, I will grab the camera and document this as it is being developed. I have quite a cluster going on in the space now as I shift boxes and wood around trying to complete the benches and figure out where the ducting is going to fit. I don't relish digging with a shovel in a space where I can barely stand upright and will likely find the smallest one man post hole digger I can rent. Then I need to pack the family off for the day, open every window in the house with as many fans running as I can because the 2cylce motor on the post hole digger is going to create quite a stench.

This ain't no dream shop, but most of them aren't. Maybe I can submit it to some mag that awards prizes for "tips". Heck, I could win a box of garage bags or a matched screwdriver set. Thanks for the interest. I'll keep y'all posted.

Bruce

[John Schreiber]

BTW, where does Occam come in? I only know his work with smaller tools (razors).

[Bruce Seidner]

It has been my great good fortune to bring out the wisenheimer in people I meet. Thank you.

But seriously...

I had been wrestling with all kinds of inefficient ducting schemes to work around existing joists, HVAC, gas, and electric to find a route from the cyclone and associated apparatus, blower, filter, etc. and it became a complicated game of Twister. The most parsimonious route was from behind my bench in the dirt crawl space but I lacked the vertical head room. A razor would remove dirt slowly. A shovel gets me to the simplest route faster. Occam would have us privilege the simplest route to the truth and understanding of a problem. The dust coffin is my remedy to the vertical challenge. If I can't go up, and going round is too costly, then it makes sense to dig down.