Pinnacle vs. Universal

[Dave Strickler]

Greetings everyone. I have been researching laser systems via the internet for about 3 months now, trying to decide which system I want to invest in. I stumbled across this message board a few days ago, and have learned more in a very short time reading your messages than I did the entire previous 3 months searching the web. My compliments and thanks to you all for the open, friendly, and knowledgeable discussions found here.

I worked for a pharmaceutical company for 27 years, but when they closed my plant, I declined the company offer to relocate. Instead, I would like to start a business of my own, and laser engraving seems to be a field with endless possibilities.

I have pretty much narrowed my search down to either a Pinnacle M series, or a Universal system. The Pinnacle system caught my eye because of the price, and the special packages which inlude so many items which are listed as accessories on other systems.

The Universal sytems are attractive because of their longer experince with laser systems, they are US made, and they are upgradeable. I can buy a 30 watt system, and later upgrade it to a higher power very easily. It is my understanding that the Pinnacle systems are not upgradeable.

I noticed there are several Pinnacle users on this board. What happens if a laser tube dies on a Pinnacle system? Is the system dead? Can a service rep replace it on site? How responsive would service be here in Pennsyvania?

I plan on buying a system sometime shortly after the first of the year. As you folks know, deciding which one to buy is a very difficult decision, so any help or advice you folks could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Dave Strickler

[Aaron Koehl]

I'm pleased with the Epilog Legend, though it comes with a hefty price tag. We've produced some really great looking projects. Though I can't weigh in on the Universal or Pinnacle, I think Keith metioned looking in that direction if he were to purchase a second laser.

[Dave Strickler]

Thanks Aaron. I haven't looked at Epilog very closely, but I will throw them into the mix also and make my head spin even faster!

[Ted Shrader]

Hi Dave -

Welcome to the Creek. Don't forget to check out the other areas of the site, too. Lots of good info to be had.

Welcome,
Ted

[Gary Shoemake]

HI there and welcome.

I have a m series machine and am quite happy with it. I also do undrstand that they are upgradable to a certain degree. Let me explain, When I bought mine my budget dictated a 12 watt system, which I now realize is just adequate to do the products that I do. I have talked with the company's tech support, which by the way I have not had a bad or unhappy experience with, and they telll me that I can upgrade to a 25 watt system at any time. The upgrade to a higher wattage is in the works.
There is a gentleman on the forum who is a tech rep, Kevin Huffman. I know that he checks into the forum frequently and maybe he will jump in with more info. You can alway PM him from the forum with any other questions.

Good luck with your choice no matter what it is and again as they say"Welcome to the Creek."

Gary

[Gary Shoemake]

I forgot to mention that the tube has a three year replacement guarantee.

Gary

[Keith Outten]

Dave,

I feel your pain and I have spent many hours on the phone trying to help several of our members who were ready to purchase a laser engraver. I bought mine just about three years ago and I remember vividly how confusing it was and how hard it was to find information that I felt was reliable on the Internet. Making a decision based on any manufacturers advertising is not a comfortable feeling, its like buying a car and the salesman just wants to make a sale.

I purchased an Epilog Legend Model 24 with a 35 watt power supply, auto focus, air assist and the rotary attachment. The auto focus has been a disappointment and I have disabled it as it can be hazardous if you make the mistake of using it doing rotary work. I also purchased a vector cutting table which I felt was very expensive considering how poorly it was constructed. I did receive a new vector table from Epilog when I complained for three months and it was even worse than the first, it was out of tolerance (surface flatness) by an eighth of an inch.

Sounds like I'm trying to convince you to stay away from Epilog but that isn't really the case. My engraver has worked flawlessly for three years and the machine is really quite impressive. Amazingly accurate and capable of producing incredible quality work, Epilog should be on your list of machines to evaluate.

I have also spent some time talking to the Universal Rep in Fredricksburg Virginia and I hope some day to be able to vist them and see a demo of their machines. Sadly there isn't a Pinacle sales office anywhere close to my shop that I know of, I would also like to see their equipment and how well it performs. I know that there will be another laser engraver in my future and I try to keep up with the new models as best I can. The Epilog benchtop machines are recommended highly by those who have purchased them recently, in many ways they can be a better value than the larger machines.

Your right about lasers providing endless possibilities, they are the most versatile machines I have ever seen. You can make a very handsome living if you can market your engraving services, like woodworking or anything else the bottom line is always marketing.

[Glen Peters]

Hi Dave

Welocme to the Creek.

I have a LaserPro M-25. Got it 2 yrs ago and it has done everything that I have asked it to do within its capabilities.

Had I known 2 years ago what I know now, I would have made my purchase differently. It came as a package with everything you need to start engraving immediately, laser, oder reduction system, vector cutting table, rotary engraving fixture, air assist with compressor and software. Here is what I would have done to save some money.

1. I would not get the oder reduction system with the charcoal filter. Mine had a speed control which went ka-put so I replaced the entire thing with a $100 dust collector I got on Ebay and just vent everything outdoors. The amount of smoke and fumes is not that great and will not cause a problem with the neighbors. If you see smoke coming out of the outdoor vent you probably have a much bigger problem than air polution. If for some reason you are unable to vent to the outdoors, then you definately need the filtration. The filters and activated charcoal are expensive and need to be replaced frequently.

2. The vector cutting table was quite expensive for what it really is. It is nice to have if you do much cutting. You can make something similar much cheaper.

3. My rotary engraving fixture is still in the box it came in, never used. From what I have read, most engravers don't use theirs very much either. I would wait until the need arises before I would invest.

4. Air assist for me is a must. The price of the compressor was a bit high in my opinion. You can use a small compressor without a tank similar to those used to inflate soccer balls, inflatable pools or car tires. Need to install a water separator or you will be squirting water on your work on those humid days.

5. My system came with Engravlab software. I have never used it. I, as many do, use Corel Draw and Photopaint (which is part of the Draw suite) or Photoshop. If you do any photos you will definitely want to get Photograv, expensive but well worth it.

With the money I would have saved by providing my own exhaust systen,making my own cutting table, not buying the rotary engraver and software and providing my own compressor for air assist I could have gotten more wattage on my laser.

If the vendor provides onsite setup and training with the purchase, take it. I didn't and found the initial learning curve quite steep.

I am very happy with my Laserpro system. Tech support had been great. I am not familiar with Universal or Epilog so can not make any comparisons. Just my 2 cent on my experience.

Saw on gccworld.com that there is a new Laserpro model just launched. Haven't had a chance to check out details.

Glen

[Doug McIntyre]

I have a very reliable ULS machine along with Corel Draw and Photograv. You shouldn't need any other software and a home made extraction system should be easy and effective as long as the extractor is powerful enough and quiet enough. I wouldn't bother with a cutting table at all - I got a very useful tip from a U.S. sourced video recommending 'egg-crate louvers' as a substitute. They are the plastic 'grills' used in flouorescent light fittings and you could probably source them from your local electrical retailer - the smallest grid in white plastic is best and just one piece lasts forever - I made the mistake of buying a box full - they will be now passed on to my descendants - hope they can find a use for them.

Doug

[Kevin Huffman]

Hello Dave,

My name is Kevin Huffman. I am one of the Pinnacle Laser Techs. I am sorry I didn't reply to your post faster, I have been out of the office for the last couple of days sick.

I am sorry to hear of your plant shutting down. But you are correct, with a laser engraver your possibilities are endless. I like to say your imagination is your limit.

But to answer your questions. What happens if the laser tube dies is, we get you a new one. Send it to you and walk you through installing it. There are 4 bolts that hold the laser tube in place and it is pretty much a direct replacement. Then all you have to do is a minor beam alignment. You can visit www.laserpin.com on the tech support tab, under the image information section there are some video's that show you how to do it. You can take a look them to see how easy it is. Usually the whole process of replaceing a tube takes no more than 1 1/2 hours. If for some reason the installation or beam alignment process can not be completed by the customer we can send a tech on location. But I do have to say this 95% of the repairs that have ever been done on these machines have been done by the customer. Not because we are lazy and don't want to do it, but because it is much faster. If we overnight you the part, you install it you are fixed the next day. If we have to send out a tech it take at least a week to get all the reservations set up. More down time for you.

Again, 95% of the time any problem that can occur with this machine can be solved over the phone and/or sending you a part.
If you ask many of the Pinnacle Laser User on this web site you will see that we don't have to many problems with our machines.

As Glen has mentioned he has a Laserpro 25, which is the exact same machine as our M Series. Both Are made by a company called GCC. I just looked in our system we do have a Glen Peters who bought a M-Series 25W. It may just be the cold medicine talking but I am pretty sure we have talked before. Which means he would have bought it through us. I don't know at this point. My head is pounding to much.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to post here or give us a call, one of us techs or a sales person can answer any questions you might have.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Dave;
Welcome to the world of laser engraving/cutting. You may find that your plant closing was the best thing that ever happened to you-not much consulation now, but focus on the future.
I got into this business as a hobby adjunct to my woodworking when I retired-turned it into a small side business which keeps me busy as I want to be with plenty of time for trying new things with this machine- I have a LaserPro Mercury 60 watt unit -have it for nearly 18 months now and still marvel every day as to what it can do and still finding new things.
I purchased my unit directly from the LaserPro rep (Scott Faulkner) in the northeast (I'm in the Rochester, NY area) who provides terrific support and did a great job training me in one day.As an engineer, I spent easily as much time as you did researching various units and came down to a choicebetween the Laserpro, Universal, and Epilog units. I am convince that all of the units (at that time) were pretty much equal-small differences but the pros and cons kind of balanced out. Ended up with the LaserPro because:
1. Got a great financial deal on a higher power unit plus accessories from LaserPro than I could get fom Sign Warehouse(Pinnacle/LaserPro), Epilog , or Universal.
2. Liked the ability to move the head of the unit by hand and position it anywhere-saves a lot of time. The other units did not have this at the time-don't know if they do now.
3. Unit was built like a tank-very sturdy construction-easy to clean optics

Post Purchase

1. Laser tube went down 2 weeks after I received the unit- they Fedexed me a new one overnight and it took me about an hour to install-no problems since then except losing a few focus probes through my own negligence.
2. LaserPro documentation is horrible but Scott has always been there if I had any questions. Understand Sign Warehouse has tried to improve the service manual but have no experience with them.
3. Don't buy oder reduction unit, rotary unit, cutting table-as someone said above, far less expensive alternatives are available and a little ingenuiy goes a long way-this is not rocket science.

Good luck-whe is PA are you? If you're close feel free to cal and /or visit as I'm more than willing to answer questions or discuss issues.
George M. Perzel
LaserArts

[Dave Strickler]

Thank you all for the information, especially on which accessories are not necessary. I am still wondering about the rotary attachment, as I would like to have the ability to engrave glasses and bottles, either with the laser alone or in combination with sand blasting/carving. I have several friends who are restaurant or bar owners, and they have all expressed interest in having their glassware engraved.

George, I live outside York, Pa. I may very well take you up on your offer once I am further along in this process. Thank you very much for the offer.

Kevin, thank you for your input. I hope you're feeling better soon!

Doug, Glen, Keith, Gary, Ted, Aaron, thank you for the great info. What a great group of people on this message board!!

I'll keep you posted on what I decide and on my adventures along the way on this intriguing journey.

Dave

[Kevin Huffman]

Hey George,

There are some new instructions for the rotary attachment that I think would help you out a bunch. Unfortuneately I can not add them to this website. Just send me a PM with your email and I will email them to you.

Same thing for you dave or anyone else, if you want to see what an exert from our manual I can email you it too.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Kevin;
Thanks- would like to see them.
George
perzel@frontiernet.net

[Kevin Huffman]

They are coming to you now.