instrument builders...???

[Paul Raymond]

i have been working on a small, 3-string box-guitar and it has been coming along nicely. i play guitar but have never built one. my son found a few websites about cigar box guitars so we decided to make one. since we did not have a cigar box i decided to just build the box. all was going swimmingly until this morning. i finally reached the stage where i was going to start the finishing steps and....i dropped the guitar and....the neck broke at the heal.

i screwed the neck on through the side of the box and also added some wood glue. the neck separated from the body and also cracked the heal. the screws kept the neck from completely falling off of the body.

devastated! but i immediately began a repair. and think i can fix it.

my question is this:
i used oak for the neck. i know that rosewood or mahogany are traditionally used but...i had the oak. is oak prone to splitting along the grain? the heal of the neck is about 1" wide, 3" long and comprised of 3 small pieces glued together with the grain oriented to run the same direction as the neck itself. was the fracture due to my choice of wood, my construction methods or both? the pictures show the guitar after the repair was started. i used a automotive gap measurer to push glue into the space between the heal and the body. the very thin steel blade was perfect for this use. if you look carefully you can just see the diagonal break in the center piece of the 3 that make up the heal. i used my finger and pushed glue into that crack as well.

any tips here would be appreciated as i know this will not be my last instrument. thanks!

[Heath Brandenburg]

I've never built a guitar, but I wouldn't screw the neck onto the body. I would think about using a dovetail or other technique that would give you more support from inside the body.

[Jamie Buxton]

Yes, red oak is somewhat more prone to splitting along the grain than some other hardwoods. But short cross-grain structures are fragile in most any species.

If you're going to glue up the neck from several thin-ish pieces of wood, you'd have a stronger structure if the grain of the pieces run along the piece of wood. That is, the grain along the fingerboard would run like you have now, but the grain in that short arm of the L would run with the arm instead of across the arm. There would be a joint of some sort at the elbow of the L. I'd use a bridle joint or a box joint. They're easy to make on a table saw.

[Steve Clarkson]

Hi Paul,

I don't build guitars, but I do cut pieces out for other people that make them.

IMHO, I think it's the design of the heal of the neck and the way you are attaching it to the box. I think Heath is right about finding a better way to attach it.

[Paul Raymond]

heath, jamie, steve-

yes, i do agree with that my design has some flaws. i know that i will do things differently next time.

i believe that i salvaged this one by drilling a hole in the top of the neck and into the heal. i also bored holes through the back of the heal and into the box itself. the inside of the box has a heal plate that the screws go through. i inserted 3/16 dowels in these holes. i hope this will work! i really want to play this little thing!

i just put my 3rd coat of lacquer on it. it looks good.

paul

[Bryan Morgan]

How did you calculate your fret spacing? Something looks a little off to me... maybe its just your pic. I'm curious to know how it sounds!

Stewart Macdonald has some cool mountain dulcimer kits you might like!

[Angie Orfanedes]

Some people run the neck all the way through the body, with a relief cut under the sound board - eliminates the heel problem.

You can get a lot of good info from checking out his post:
http://www.mimf.com/archives/cookietin_banjo.htm

I have built several cookie tin banjos from these ideas.

Also look at mimf.com for ideas.

[Paul Raymond]

bryan and angie- i calculated my neck spacing the way it's always been done. i held it up to my "real" guitar and made pencil marks! to my eye it looks accurate but i'm sure it is off here and there. i actually inlaid strips of walnut which are level with the top of the neck. i plan to play it with a slide.

this project started out as a father-son thing with out much planning. up to this point i have studied guitar building only from a distance and only from the perspective of a player. as i started to build i solved problems as i went. i decided to use a bolt-on neck because i did not want to put the time into creating a dove tail. plus, in the guitar world there is a huge debate about whether a dovetail (like a martin) or a bolt on (taylor) is better. i own a taylor, have played many martin's. they are both worthy attachments methods.

since building my little box-guitar i have realized that although taylor does use a bolt-on method for neck attachment they have a bridle joint in use (or similar) rather than a simple heal-against-body style like mine.

live and learn. today is more lacquer and hopefully by the end of the week i'll be able to string it up.

paul.

[Paul Raymond]

here are some pictures of my just completed box guitar. it looks pretty cool but the sound is very quiet. i already have some ideas as to why so when i make the next one it will incorporate those ideas. mainly, the strings do nut run over a saddle, instead they go through the bridge and the lack of downward pressure directly over the top is one reason why i think the guitar is so quiet. anyway...

thanks for looking!

paul

[Carl Beckett]

A great project - There is no substitute for jumping in, making mistakes, and taking notes on what you might do differently next time.

But in the meantime you have a great finished product!

[David Keller NC]

Paul: Theoretically, it should make little difference whether the strings run over a saddle or through a bridge. However, the bridge must be completely and solidly attached to the top (i.e., it has to be glued over its entire length and width).

This requirement is partially why most guitars run the strings over a saddle - it provides a guarantee that all of the vibration will be transmitted to the soundboard.

[george wilson]

The guitar is so quiet because of several things: First,that massive bridge is way too heavy. Next,you need to drill holes in the bridge like a normal type bridge,and have the strings come up through the bridge(held in the holes by normal bridge pins) and go over a bone bridge saddle to provide down bearing on the top. Next,the bridge is way too close to the lower edge of the sound board,too near the sides. As the top approaches the sides,the sides stiffen the top so it won't vibrate.Next,how thick is the top? Is it braced underneath heavily? Lastly,cedar is o.k.,but not the best material for a top. Use spruce 1/10" thick.1 more thing: The headstock being straight,provides nearly NO downbearing on the nut.

Never use flat cut wood. It is much stiffer than quarter sawn wood. That is why you always see quartersawn wood on the top of instruments. You can use cedar and get decent results if you don't want to buy spruce,but it needs to be quartersawn,and thin enough to vibrate,or about 1/10" thick. You could just use redwood siding,which is quartered,but I really advise buying at least a cheap spruce top.

Why not just build a more conventional guitar with 6 strings? You could still leave it as a box shape,but look at regular guitars and see about where on the body the bridge goes. Cant the headstock back to make downbearing. Make the bridge only 3/8" high,and add a bone nut to it and bridge pins.

You are going through the effort to make an instrument. Just a little more effort,like making it 6 strings,and you will have a much better instrument for your effort.

Last,heel is spelled heel. Heal means to recover from a wound.