Once we get some of those new muscles from ripping boards, we'll try our hands at sawing logs with a pit saw.
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Once we get some of those new muscles from ripping boards, we'll try our hands at sawing logs with a pit saw
Contributor
What do you mean we?Originally Posted by Frank Drew
Once we get some of those new muscles from ripping boards, we'll try our hands at sawing logs with a pit saw
I use a Neander chainsaw for logs.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Trey - As many others have mentioned on this thread, the slowness of your rip was a combination of teeth that were too fine, and were the wrong geometry (corsscut) for the job. If you'd like to stay with pull-type japanese saws, there are blades that are designed for the purpose - here's one (scroll down to the "King Rip Blade):
http://www.tashirohardware.com/Tashi...aw_blades.html
[OP]
Member
Thanks for all the help guys. Had a busy day.
I was indeed aware it was very much the wrong saw for the job, but I started and then got determined.I read up on saw tooth geometry a couple of months ago and I watched saw auctions for a while but they were pretty high. And I considered saws less essential than some other things because I do have a skilsaw and jigsaw.
David, this is EXACTLY what I've been looking for. I hadn't been able to find Japanese rip blades anywhere.
I don't think that I have a particular preference for pullsaws. I just have a preference for $15 impulse-hardened saw blades over the cost of good, sharp Western saws.
That said, it seems a new woodworking friend is going to ship me four 26" handsaws that are extras to him, which I'm excited about. Two are rip saws that need a little work so I'm going to see about getting some saw files this week. I find the idea of filing rip teeth less intimidating.
A foot per minute would be more than acceptable for the bragging rights of doing the whole thing by hand.
[OP]
Member
Jonathan,
Your suggestion of saw hanging seems particularly suited for the wall opposite my planned bench area. It is the original siding of the 1907 corner store that forms the older half of our house.
However, the female half of the household seems to lack your insight and vision....
Member
Hmm. Greek key baluster + old clapboards = South Carolina? Seems to me like a classy old saw and spiffed-up wooden transitional plane on the mantelpiece would be in keeping with the rustic charm, but sadly, the female half of my household also inexplicably refuses to recognize my aesthetic genius. "It's dadaiste," I say, but to no avail. "If that's dadaiste," she'd snort, "then the mess out in the garage is the fricken Museum of Modern Art."
Member
I remember trying to do that before I knew better. Those "fine finish" saws from the borgs are awesome for crosscutting soft wood, but they can't rip for crap.
Once you get a good rip saw you will be amazed. A well tuned rip saw should glide right through that SYP.
Hi. i'm new.
Wanted to try fine woodworking.
Like history. Don't have much room.
Bought planes on ebay.
Learned to sharpen. Kinda.
Building workbench.
Bought SYP for top.
All of that I can deal with. Kind of. I guess.
The real problem is....
I just ripped the first benchtop strip off a 2x10x8' SYP board by hand.
Just to see how hard it was.
As expected, it's not easy. It took me 45 minutes including considerable rest time, using a 14" 14TPI crosscut Sharksaw. I'd guess you could do it a lot faster with practice and the right saw, sawbench, etc.
That might actually be acceptable.
So, like, assuming the lack of stationary power tools, would the rest of you evil insane people keep ripping them by hand, or would you use a circ saw and guide? If (A), what kind of saw would you use?
And, uhhhh, thanks! I guess.
Contributor
If one of your rip saws is in the 5-7 tpi range and sharp, I would be surprised if you don't beat that speed.A foot per minute would be more than acceptable for the bragging rights of doing the whole thing by hand.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Trey,
If you are two miles from Highland Hardware, well, you are doomed to slide down the slope. I went in there so often that the cashiers knew me by name! Anyway, I started my woodworking journey much like you: wanting the non-powered method with minimal dust made in the process approach. I even made my bench out of SYP for my first project. Now, since the bench is the thing at hand, I'll throw my 2 cents in and offer that maybe you're approaching the bench top from the wrong angle. Have you thought of using 2x4's for the top, rather than paying for a 2x10, only to rip it down? My point is this: if you glue up the top with each board glued on the 4" face, then you need to rip NOTHING. Will it be thick? Well, yeah, but then you get to plane it to thickness and flatten it in the process. Save the 2x10s to make your stretchers, the width will help give some stability.
Have fun with it!
Maurice
Member
I just had one of those "holy crap!" moments. In my reply above I said you could probably cut a foot per minute with a good ripsaw in 2" stock. I'm building the folding workbench from Roy Underhill's "Woodwright's Apprentice", so I decide to put my saw where my mouth is, and time my rips. The bench calls for a 2x10 ripped into 2x2 pieces for the legs and braces. I got some beautiful poplar 2x10 (1 3/4" finished thickness) for it. I did four rips down a 6' length using my 6 TPI saw and 4 1/2 TPI saw.
The 6 TPI is a Thomas Preston, not Disston; the etch is almost unreadable. I found a matching one online claiming to be dated 1867. The medallion on mine is an eagle, with "Warranted Extra", no patent date. So this saw is probably at least 100 years old, possibly up to 150.
The 4 1/2 I think is a Disston, but not entirely sure. No more visible etch, "Warranted superior" eagle medallion.
The first three rips took 22, 24, and 22 minutes using the 6 on the first two and the 4 1/2 on the last. So that's 3 1/2 to 4 minutes per foot. Not exactly the rate I had predicted.
However, for the fourth, I figured I should take 10 minutes to sharpen my 6 first. Then I did the fourth rip: 7 1/2 minutes. I'll let that sink in a moment.
Yes, sharpening the saw cut a 22-minute time down to 7 1/2 in the same 1 3/4" thick piece of poplar
The difference in speed with a sharp tool is just amazing. Sure, I spent 10 minutes sharpening, but 10 minutes sharpening is a lot easier than 10 minutes sawing. And that sharpening will last me for a bit. I had been ripping 2" oak with it since the last sharpening.
So the moral of the story is just like they say, if you think you might need to sharpen, sharpen.
Steve, mostly hand tools. Click on my name above and click on "Visit Homepage" to see my woodworking blog.
Contributor
will one of you young sawyer try standing a board vertical and clamp it to your work bench before you rip saw it---compare the time to sawing a board horizontal
Contributor
I did this, it seemed to go fine, then all of a sudden it got real hard. Next thing I knew there were two pieces to my bench on the floor.
OK, just couldn't resist. Last board I ripped by hand was 8 feet long and I did not want to stand on a ladder.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
To echo Jim's reply, I only do short pieces vertically, say less than 24", so speed isn't really an issue.
One important note on technique is to flip the board over every few inches and saw from the other side. Sounds tedious, but it isn't. It keeps things fast because you're not sawing full thickness all the time, you're mostly sawing partially sawn thickness (like cutting down from the corners when sawing a tenon cheek). This is the recommended method for resawing (see the hyperkitten site), but it's also useful for normal ripping.
The other thing is that it keeps the saw tracking close to the line. It's easy for the saw to wander on the back side even though it looks good on the side facing you. Frequent flipping allows you to correct any wander before it gets bad (you need to mark the line on both sides of the board). You can hold to within a hair of your line for the entire length of a board.
The need to flip from one side to another is also a good reason to rip horizontally, not vertically. You can rest the board on a sawbench and horse and hold it down with your knee or foot, no clamps or holdfasts needed. When it's vertical, you have to keep putting it in the vise and removing it. That's a pain.
Steve, mostly hand tools. Click on my name above and click on "Visit Homepage" to see my woodworking blog.
Member
Steve - I don't remember you noting this or not, but I can't remember how you were holding the board while ripping it. To be specific, working on a sawbench while centering your mass over the cut speeds things along mightily when compared to standing at a workbench. If you don't have one, taking the time to build one of the Schwarz's sawbenches would be well worth your time.
Member
I actually ripped the material for the sawbench with a panel saw combination teeth) out of 3 x 2's to get close to the right size.
After completing the sawbench the ripping has improved a LOT.
Now it may have something to do with using the bowsaw I got from Highland WW. (+- $45 comes with a 26" x 1-5/8", 5 TPI rip blade.) but the bench helps a bunch,
Cheers,
Peter
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