Adding color printing to engraving business

[Harper Abbot]

I'm looking at adding some products to my engraving business that would require full color printing (primarily to various kinds of paper products) and I am not too familiar with the technologies out there. Can anyone give me a quick overview of what's being used with some general pros/cons? My first inclination would be toward a standard color laser printer, but are there other technologies that can compliment our kinds of activities better?

[Larry Bratton]

A color laser printer is a good addition to your business. As well as printing on paper, you can also use it for laser toner transfer process to put color graphics on your hard good products, you can even do t-shirts with one. You have to have one that is compatible to the paper you use for transfers though. Your transfer process will require a heat press.
Check out the Magic Touch site for products and printer info
http://www.themagictouchusa.com/
and you can also look at sublimation. I personally have never done dye sub because it requires specially coated products, special ink and printers.
I have a Canon wide format inkjet printer that serves me well for large prints and inkjet transfers for a few shirts every now and then.

[Harper Abbot]

This is good info. I guess I'd seen transfer paper products at OfficeDepot, etc. but always figured it was more of a product for home use.

Have you used these products before? What kind of results have you had, and with what kind of printer?

Thanks so much.

[Larry Bratton]

My laser printer is an Okidata. Yes I have used the paper for transfers. Good results. Transfer papers get better and better. I love the Okidata printer. The toner works well with transfers and the printing on paper is beautiful. It has a look that gives an appearance like it was printed on offset or something.

[James Terry]

How well does that Polimation work to wood? I dont see wood listed on the web site.

[Larry Bratton]

Gotta look up Polimation? But if your talking about laser transfer to wood it works just fine. It will also work on acrylic or other plastics. I have some pieces lying around here that had toner put on them 2 or 3 years ago. It still looks good. Oh, and it works good on metal too.
(Looked it up..Magic Touch term I guess)

[James Terry]

Does anyone have some images to share of "laser transfer" from color toner? I'd like to see what can be done.

[Larry Bratton]

Best guy in this forum to ask is Mike Null. He does it a good bit and if I remember correctly he also uses Magic Touch paper. I have some examples in my shop and I'll try to make some photos tomorrow for you.

[Mike Null]

Larry

I'm probably not the best guy to talk about this but I use the process frequently and have just started using a new material from TheMagicTouch called ORD 8.1. Take a look at their web site for a better description and some video.

My use of color laser transfer is mostly for name tags but I do make some t-shirts, plaques and a few other small items as needed.

A heat press is needed.

In some cases dye sublimation can be a superior process. Since my volume for the process was low I had continual problems with the expensive ink and the printer. I still do dye sub but have MyTransferSource print all my transfers. They are fast and inexpensive.

Gary Hair does a good bit of dye sub and does not share my enthusiasm for CLTT. Maybe he'll spot this and comment.

[Larry Bratton]

Mike:
yes, I would think dye sub would be superior in some cases, I guess it's a matter of what your trying to accomplish. I understand that the new Ricoh system that uses gel type ink is really good and I have recently seen a starter deal with a printer and ink for around $500 exclusive of a heat press of course. At that price, one could afford to have two systems, CLTT and dye sub. Best of both worlds so to speak.
I'll look for the Ord 8.1. Always interested in new products.
[Edit] OIC The ORD 8.1 is for glass and acrylic.

[Mike Null]

Brian Robison just bought the gel system so maybe he'll weigh in here on that.

They'll send samples or ORD 8.1 so I'd do that before buying. It costs about $2.00 per sheet. I'm going to use it for name tags and small medallions that I can inset into plaques.

[Scott Shepherd]

The Ricoh Gel systems use about 1/3 the ink the Epson's do, according to what I have seen.

The original poster was looking to do a lot of printing on paper products. That's a far different animal and not one I'd be looking into. Printers (people, not the physical thing that sits on the desk) are a dime a dozen and it's very competitive. I do some work with several printers and I'm not sure I'd ever want to go into that world. Color and color matching is an art.

To get good colors, you really have to know what you're doing and it takes expensive printers, expensive software, and a lot of trial and error.

The same file printed on 5 different brands/types of paper will produce 5 different colors. You have to know how to deal with all that and it's far from easy.

[Harper Abbot]

yes, i'm looking to print on paper products, but my market will be to consumers, most of whom will never have heard of Pantone, etc. and will be satisfied with an image that looks nice. I don't have any intention of becoming a custom printing shop, for the reasons you laid out.

I'm excited about this transfer idea, but still just a bit skeptical. The home iron-on transfers I've used are less than professional, and that's hanging in my mind.

[Mike Null]

Transfers can be made to come very close to Pantone colors but it is a hit or miss scenario. I have never had a customer complaint on either dye sub or CLTT. My own reject rate was higher on dye sub than CLTT.

You must use special paper for both processes but dye sub also requires a special substrate which is usually expensive by comparison. CLTT paper is higher but doesn't require any special substrate.

My photographic skills are not great or I would post some pictures.

[Martin Boekers]

I run both, Magic Touch Transfer and Dye Sub.

Magic Touch can get you in the game cheaply (if you already have a color laser) I use it mostly for tiles, in an emergency I can do metal plates with it. I have done mugs, metal platers, but with this process I stress that's
it's for display and not dishwasher safe.

There is many types of material you can run through a laser printer, water slide decals, vinyls, metallics etc. Another place for interesting transfer materials is;

http://www.papilio.com/

all kinds of cool stuff!

I had given up on dye sub not had very good experience with Epson printers. I got the new Ricoh and I LOVE it! First hit photographs look great, no clogged jets causing off color images and it's a bit faster. I now am back in the dye sub game thanks to the Ricoh. Amazing I wish I had got it sooner and thrown the Epson out the window, I would have a bit more hair on my head than I do now!

Actually I started using Chromolux recently (Conde) for photographs.
Really impressive. Super high gloss finish with high saturation. Similar in appearance of the old photo process Ciba Chrome, really slick. An engraving shop selling photo transfers you may ask, YES only because of the ease of process with the Ricoh.

Laser transfer and dye sub are two distinct processes and have their own purposes. I use both depending upon need.

Marty