color filling partical board plaques

[Mark Winlund]

I guess my point in ll of this is that it is a slippery slope. When you start using particle board, then you start to think about cardboard.... or as the forum member said, brass plated steel.


“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.”(John Ruskin)



I would like to think that I sell the best that can be made rather than the cheapest. In 35 years, I have done very well adhering to this policy. True, times are hard, and work is hard to come by. Still, I am proud of what I do, and find it easier to sell quality than low price. The problem with particle board and brass plated steel is that it can look beautiful to the uninformed customer.... until it gets dropped on a corner, or the lettering starts to rust.

We make a lot of awards for a university. The people that get these awards have spent a lot of their life working in their fields before they get one of these awards. It means a great deal to them to get one, often at a banquet attended by hundreds of their contemporaries. I would be ashamed to provide an award that I knew was poor quality, just to save 5 or 10 dollars on materials.

Mark

[George McGinnis]

I use alot of the particle board plaques from JDS but have never color filled any of them. I have used shoe polish wax and it works great. I have a customer that wanted red text on a plaque and I tried masking it with transfer tape then lasering through and spray painting. That didnt work out so well. Just looking for a different way to do it.

[Martin Boekers]

I guess my point in ll of this is that it is a slippery slope. When you start using particle board, then you start to think about cardboard.... or as the forum member said, brass plated steel.
Mark

I think there is a time and a place for everything, yes some events do and require the best that we can provide. If the budget allows it.

I still remember the cheap little trophy I got for winning a pinewood derby, not for the fastest car but the one that was so obiviously built
just by my self. It was my first trophy, no it wasn't an R.S Owens original
but that was ok!

I have watched scouts recieve a cheap cast medals that I embellished, and they were so proud.

These can go on and on, I hate to say it but if I had to charge them $50 are more just to give a "higher quality" product for this type of event they may have only recieved pat on the back or a hand shake.

I have created many things from $1.00 item to over $5000.00.
This I feel is part of my job to do the best we can with what resources.
are available.

Sure I would like to drive a Lexus, have hand made solid wood furniture,
prime beef, single malt scotch and Cuban cigars, but until I can afford them and/or justify them I enjoy what I can afford. (ok I do get single malt scotch from time to time.).

So I feel yes, there is times when a smaller cheaper product is
the best choice for the event. And yes there may come a day that
cardboard will be the best choice and I'll use it. I'll use it becuase it is the best choice
and not neccessarily just to save the client money or making a larger mark up
on it and saying it's just as good.....

How many here use a rotary engraver for the bulk of there work?



Marty

[Ross Moshinsky]

Mark Winlund: Who said anything about poor quality? I have some old particle board plaques in my facility from 15-20 years ago. All look in very good condition. Nothing walks out my door crooked, scratched or in less then very very good condition. The raw materials and finishes are completely left up to budget and the customer. I refuse to put myself out of business because my customers can't afford the best. If you really think about it, if the university really cared about their employee, they would cough up some cash to make an award. My costs are my costs. I have to pay my bills. If they can only muster up $50 for a plaque for someone who worked somewhere for 50 years, that is not my fault. $25 more and they get a hardwood plaque with a brass plate in a presentation box. When I buy a hamburger, I don't expect fillet.

I also don't necessarily agree with the idea that higher quality materials = longevity. I can hand out a $150 Tropar multi plate plaque and get it back in a couple of years looking terrible. I know that isn't a result of "the elements" but more so the customer put it somewhere that resulted in abuse. Dropping, kicking, throwing, scratching, or anything else is not my responsibility.

George McGinnis: It's not easy doing paint fill. The real trick is getting the right mask. I've used several different kinds and had mixed results. The next one on my list is using Green painters tape. It is supposed to stick the best and not result in bleeding or peeling. The other trick is to paint with a light hand. I'm AWFUL at painting with a light hand, but if you have enough patience, do a lot of very light coats. The other thing would be to get a air brush setup which is a lot better than a can of Rustoleum. If they really want red, offer red brass with black letters. It's a nice alternative. Otherwise, they are going to have to spend more for a better board in order to get red paint filled letters.

Martin Boekers: I agree with just about everything you said.

[Todd Suire]

I guess my point in ll of this is that it is a slippery slope. When you start using particle board, then you start to think about cardboard.... or as the forum member said, brass plated steel.


“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.”(John Ruskin)



I would like to think that I sell the best that can be made rather than the cheapest. In 35 years, I have done very well adhering to this policy. True, times are hard, and work is hard to come by. Still, I am proud of what I do, and find it easier to sell quality than low price. The problem with particle board and brass plated steel is that it can look beautiful to the uninformed customer.... until it gets dropped on a corner, or the lettering starts to rust.

We make a lot of awards for a university. The people that get these awards have spent a lot of their life working in their fields before they get one of these awards. It means a great deal to them to get one, often at a banquet attended by hundreds of their contemporaries. I would be ashamed to provide an award that I knew was poor quality, just to save 5 or 10 dollars on materials.

Mark

Mark,

How do you normally decorate your solid wood plaques? Like you, I strive to sell a quality product that sets my work apart. However, so far all I've really done are plaque plates on wood. I'm still learning a lot about the business.

[Mike Null]

Back to my school customer. The teacher in charge of buying insisted, over my objections, that they continue with the plaques they had been using. These were the cheapest particle board with diamond dragged brushed brass aluminum plates.

They weren't happy with the engraver they used but would not switch to better alternatives on materials.

[Mark Winlund]

Mark,

How do you normally decorate your solid wood plaques? Like you, I strive to sell a quality product that sets my work apart. However, so far all I've really done are plaque plates on wood. I'm still learning a lot about the business.

Todd... up until recently, 90% of our plaque work has been sublimated text and logos on Ultracoat plates. Made in england, ultracoat (sold here by Novachrome) is by far and away the best looking sublimation substrate.

We always use a solid wood plaque. When Quality woods in Oklahoma went bankrupt, we switched to Big Sky Woodcrafters.

Recently, due to the bad economy, our customers (customer?) have switched to lasered Alder plaques. No metal or screws at all. We actually make a higher profit per hour on these because of the labor savings.

For an upgrade in quality, we can provide routed logos and text using a tabletop CNC router. The software is Aspire by Vectrix. This really takes a lot of time to do, so the price starts to add up.

My customers know that I will not give them poor quality awards. Most of our business is from customers we have had for decades. The current depression has hit everyone hard. They are trying to save wherever they can. There are empty buildings all over town. The newspaper is making a fortune publishing foreclosure notices. Like everyone else, I am just trying to survive. I won't do it by selling low quality garbage.

Regards,

Mark (the dinosaur, almost extinct)

[Michael Hunter]

An alternative take on Mark's stance on only using "real" wood -

For several years I engraved the (real) wooden bases for a girl who made fabulous glass awards.
On one big order two of the bases came back to be re-done on new bits of wood. When I asked why, she said that her customer had rejected them "because they had knots in them"!
So much for natural materials ....


My own pet hate is of "fake" materials. I'd be happy to engrave MDF, but NOT if it was made to look like mahogany, however realistic it might be.
Similarly, if I use plywood, I try to make a feature of the edges so everyone knows what it is.

[Mark Winlund]

An alternative take on Mark's stance on only using "real" wood -

For several years I engraved the (real) wooden bases for a girl who made fabulous glass awards.
On one big order two of the bases came back to be re-done on new bits of wood. When I asked why, she said that her customer had rejected them "because they had knots in them"!
So much for natural materials ....


My own pet hate is of "fake" materials. I'd be happy to engrave MDF, but NOT if it was made to look like mahogany, however realistic it might be.
Similarly, if I use plywood, I try to make a feature of the edges so everyone knows what it is.

My point exactly. Your customer thought that visible knots were a sign of poor quality. Imagine what they would think if they knew that perfect looking wood plaque with no knots was sawdust covered with printed vinyl.

Mark

[Mike Null]

The mahogany particle board is that we're discussing is very well covered with mahogany veneer. It's perfectly good quality.

[Michael Hunter]

Mark - I didn't make clear that her selling point (USP) is that her awards are "natural" and that part of the beauty is that no two are identical.

[Martin Boekers]

I have a handful of clients that don't like the way that solid wood plaques
are glued together pieces and sometimes the engraving changes with the grain.

I usually show them the plaque I will be using and if they have any issues
I explain that wood is organic and will have imperfections. The glueing panels helps keep warpage to minimum and larger full size solid planks are
more expensive. If they are dead set on it I have a wood shop here, but when I quote them the cost they go back to stock items.

Some want to go through all my stock to pick the best ones, obviously I can't do that. I thought about offering that to the few that have issues
as a premium service will an additional fee.

How do others handle this.

I just finished a handful of composite plaques yesterday that the client
was delighted with! After checking local shops that were pushing full wood,
they were afraid that they wouldn't be able to have recognitions to give
as their budget didn't fit that pricing structure. They came out really nice.
win win situation! I do explain the differences in quality with the product when I consult with them on their project.


Marty