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Thread: Oak Burl veneer finishing

  1. #1
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    Oak Burl veneer finishing

    Not having used oak veneer before, I have some oak burl veneer and was wondering what would be the best way to fill it for finishing or do I need to.

  2. #2
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    Filler

    Whether you need to or not is a matter of choice. If you fill it, you will get a nice slick surface. If you dont, then the grain pattern will telegraph through which is usually a desireable feature with red oak.
    Here is what I wrote on a different form:

    A paste wood grain filler is the only practical way to do this. The grain filler should be at least as dark or darker than the average color of the pores. Our eyes are accustomed to seeing holes, caves, cracks, shadows etc as dark and it would not be soft and pleasing to the eye if they were lighter.
    Begin by applying stain if you dont want the natural color. Then begin the 'process':

    First, apply an even wet coat of primer or sealer and do not sand. Grain filler should go on after the primer or sealer. If the sealer went on first, the pigment in the filler would stain all of the wood and this in most cases is not be desirable. The paste wood filler is kinda like a very thickish paint so brush it on along the grain one time. Then start applying across the grain untill the pores are filled. While it is still wet, work a burlap rag rigorously across the grain going back and forth and forcing the filler into the pores. While you are doing this, you will notice the quasi-liquid filler being cleaned and abosrbed by the burlap rag leaving a fairly clean surface. If you go along the grain, you will be pulling the filler right back out again.
    You have to work reasonably fast because the filler will flash off pretty fast.
    When the filler has flashed off and you are sure it is dry, lightly sand the surface. You will be sanding off the unwanted filler on the surface of the primer and leaving only the pores filled. Normally you should only have to do this one time. If the pores are not filled completely, give a second application. No more than that should be necessary. Now add your finishing coats and they should be reasonably flat.
    If you are going for a natural look without staining, the sanding part is easy because you dont have to worry about sanding through the primer and cutting into the stain.
    Some people prefer to start by sealing/priming the raw wood, then filling and sanding the surface thoroughly to remove all surface traces of the primer. then going ahead and staining. The potential problem here is that the solvents in the stain may pull out some of the filler if you are not careful in applying the stain. This problem can be avoided if the stain is lightly sprayed on. Personally, I don't like this method for the above reason.

    P.S. Always make sure the paste wood grain filler is compatable with the stains and finish you are applying.


  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply Tony. Never having to fill grain before I am a little nervious about it, it's an expensive oak burl. My second question is then, could I use shellac as a filler since I usually use it a a sealer or does it nots contain enough solids?

  4. #4
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    You can use shellac if the pores aren't too deep. Make sure you give it a couple of days to make sure it's completely dry. Otherwise the shellac may contract a bit, later on in the process.

    Use a 2# cut or even a 3# cut as a filler. Dewaxed is harder than shellac with the wax still in it.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  5. #5
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    The finish schedule for a project I am working on is most likely going to be a mission style:

    -Transtint dye
    -Seal-A-Cell
    -Gel Stain
    -Shellac (still debating if i want to do a clear shellac yet)
    -Topcoat (most likely Target USL/EM-6000 Satin)

    Would I do the wood filler on the burl AFTER the seal-a-cell and before the gel stain? I am not sure how this would respond with the gel stain.

    I am not sure how the dye would respond to the filler if i put the filler on first, or put a seal coat, filler then dye. Would the sealer mess up the dye?

    So many questions!
    Grady - "Thelma, we found Dean's finger"
    Thelma - "Where is the rest of him?!"

  6. #6
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    Test, test, test. It is the only way to really know how the filler will react to a certain step and some point in the process.

    As far as using shellac, it works great but oak pores are usually so large it is way to many steps to get it filled. Essentially you put on a decent coat and sand back to raw wood. (the pores will still look shiny) Do this again until the whole surface becomes dull when sanded. Then top coat as normal.

    I like using shellac as a filler on some woods but generally go with a paste filler like Pore-o-pac on oak. It can be a messy pain but is very good when done.

    Joe
    JC Custom WoodWorks

    For best results, try not to do anything stupid.

    "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Padmé Amidala "Star Wars III: The Revenge of the Sith"

  7. #7
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    The shellac for me is to help accent the figure in some of the grain and as a base coat for the topcoat, not to act as a filler. The dye and gel stain add the color and tone to the wood I am looking for, but the shellac is to help show off the figure and movement of the wood.

    Is pore-o-pac compatible with shellac? I am not that familiar with fillers.

    Interesting profile picture
    Grady - "Thelma, we found Dean's finger"
    Thelma - "Where is the rest of him?!"

  8. #8
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    DE-WAXED shellac is compatible with most finishes and fillers.

    Why use Seal-a-cell? It's nothing more than thinned poly. Use the shellac to seal the dye, then glaze (gel stain), seal agian, then top coat.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  9. #9
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    Shellac, espeically dewaxed, is just about compatible with EVERYTHING! That is what is so nice about it. It is often used to between two incompatible finishes.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  10. #10
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    Scott,
    The seal-a-cell is part of the mission finish schedule I am testing out.

    See this article from homestead finishings by Jeff Jewitt for full information on the finish schedule.

    I would be happy to use shellac in lieu of the seal-a-cell before glazing, but have no tested it. Have you done the dye/shellac/gel/topcoat schedule before? How did you like it?

    I would think the shellac may inhibit the glazing of the gel stain compared to the seal-a-cell.

    Joe,
    I grabbed some darker pore-o-pac to test on the burl. I figured since the holes and inclusions are at the centers of the burls and darken that I need a dark filler to match.

    Would the filler be best to put on after the dye and sealer (shellac or seal-a-cell) or right after the dye then before the sealer?

    Thanks again, learning new stuff every day!
    Last edited by alex grams; 09-02-2010 at 2:44 PM.
    Grady - "Thelma, we found Dean's finger"
    Thelma - "Where is the rest of him?!"

  11. #11
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    Alex,

    Sealer is to keep the dye from moving around. What you seal it with is not critical. Why buy another (not as good, see below) product?

    If you can spray the shellac (Zinsser aerosol is de-waxed shellac) you can go to the next step in a hour; seal-a-cell is varnish so it takes much longer to dry. It is also much softer than shellac, so while you are applying the glaze you could damage the not yet cured varnish sealer (30 days to cure) shellac is dry in a hour and does not cure, when it dry it's done...
    Last edited by Scott Holmes; 09-02-2010 at 4:59 PM.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

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