Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: How do I make mullion/muttons

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle area , Duvall
    Posts
    2,074

    Question How do I make mullion/muttons

    Im going to be making some simple shaker style mullions and muttons . So they will be say 3/4 wide by 1/4 thick square edges. Going over a shaker framed door with glass center.
    How do I make them?
    I was thinking of milling say 5 inch wide board by the longest length I need and making dadoes so they lap joint over each other. I think that might be way to do it.
    My main question is how do I attach to frame? Should I pin nail it at a 45 with some glue? It is paint grade but the client is doing milk paint so im not sure if you will be able to see joint lines or putty if I groove them into the frame on the top.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    6,468
    Muntins are often double mitred (to a point) and set into corresponding V shaped notches.

    You could do a half lapped joint as you suggested where the muntins fross each other, then set them into mitred notches in the window frame.

    Regards, Rod.

  3. #3
    The New Yankee Workshop features this in their latest TV spot. This just aired this weekend and gives a fairly good description of this process.
    Best Regards,

    Gordon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle area , Duvall
    Posts
    2,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Muntins are often double mitred (to a point) and set into corresponding V shaped notches.

    You could do a half lapped joint as you suggested where the muntins fross each other, then set them into mitred notches in the window frame.

    Regards, Rod.
    So the mitered notches are visible on the front of the door frame?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    6,431
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D Peltier View Post
    So the mitered notches are visible on the front of the door frame?
    You're already planning for lap joints where the mullions cross. Why not use a lap joint where the mullions hit the door frame? It would look more consistent.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle area , Duvall
    Posts
    2,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    You're already planning for lap joints where the mullions cross. Why not use a lap joint where the mullions hit the door frame? It would look more consistent.
    That makes sense, so again there on the top? Are mullions and muttons usually flush with face of door frame for shaker style like this? or are thye inset a little? I understand others are shaped on a shaper but these are basic.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    6,431
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D Peltier View Post
    ... so again there on the top? ...
    I don't understand what you mean by "top". Let's say the door is on the front of the cabinet. I'd say that at the lap joint at the door frame, the mullions are behind the door frame. You glue up the door frame, then run a rabbet around the opening. That rabbet is the same depth as the rabbets on the backs of the mullions. The mullion grid gets assembled separately, and then the whole grid gets inserted from the back of the door.

    One advantage of making the mullion fronts flush with the front of the door frame is that you can sand the whole thing easily.

    You might want to think ahead about how you're going to hold the glass lites in. There are about four zillion strategies. Maybe, because it is just paint grade, you just use glaziers points, and putty or caulk.
    Last edited by Jamie Buxton; 09-13-2010 at 1:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle area , Duvall
    Posts
    2,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by "top". Let's say the door is on the front of the cabinet. I'd say that at the lap joint at the door frame, the mullions are behind the door frame. You glue up the door frame, then run a rabbet around the opening. That rabbet is the same depth as the rabbets on the backs of the mullions. The mullion grid gets assembled separately, and then the whole grid gets inserted from the back of the door.

    One advantage of making the mullion fronts flush with the front of the door frame is that you can sand the whole thing easily.

    You might want to think ahead about how you're going to hold the glass lites in. There are about four zillion strategies. Maybe, because it is just paint grade, you just use glaziers points, and putty or caulk.
    I just wanted to put one whole pane behind the glass.
    What you said about rabbet inside the back of frame will work and the mullions and muttons having the same depth of rabbett on ends it will drop in and be flush with the front.
    Thanks

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Posts
    1,993
    the 'old school' way would be to mortise each one, and have a back rabbet on each one to hold individual panes of glass.

    the below are on a window not a door, but the principle is the same.

    http://xayd.nbfl.net/muntin-bottom-topsash.jpg

    http://xayd.nbfl.net/muntin-mortise-topsash.jpg

    http://xayd.nbfl.net/outside-topsash.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    5,870
    For SDL's (simulated divided lites) I'd make a sort of a half lap where the munton's meet the stiles and rails. Basically I'd take out a 3/8"X1/2" rabbit on the interior facing edge of each stile and rail, leaving a 1/4" thick rabbit ledge. I'd make the intersection of the two muntons a basic half lap, then form one half of a lap at the end of each munton. You will remove 1/2 the the thicknes of your bars, and it will be the half facing the exterior or show side.

    You can form the receiving end of the half lap in the stiles with a simple jig made of MDF and a small 1/2" top bearing mortising bit like you might use for hinges. Whiteside makes a good one. A piece 1/2" thick MDF works well in a 1/2" glass rabbit. The width of this jig's opening will equal the width of your grates bars, and you should use them to make the template for accuracy. You will have to square the corners of these cuts with a chisel, and I would make them with a trim router. Make sense?

    In the schetch up mock ups that follow, the first jpeg is the basic stile or rail half lap as viewed from the back, the second is a rough schetch of a basic jig to guide the receiving end of the half lap, and the third is a mock up of a basic munton.

    PS...if you really want to know about MUTTON you should check with a sheep farmer.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11

    Simple solution

    Hi Craig,
    I have made a few doors like this with exactly the same 3/4 inch by 1/4 inch stock. I make a grid out of that stock that is 1/4 inch thick. The grid holds the glass and I hide the edges of the glass on the back of the door with tiny mitred stock.
    The simplest way to picture what I am saying is to draw a tic-tac-toe grid and then draw a square around it. That would be a 2 over 2 light. A 2 over 3 light is more common, but anyway you make a closed grid (of mullions) with half laps and dadoes and treat it like you would a panel in a shaker style door.
    In other words, when making shaker style doors, I have a 1/4 inch deep and wide dado in the center of the thickness of my frame where a panel sits, and if I make a solid door I will slide the panel in the frame when I glue it up. When I make a glass door I slide the "grid" in the dado where the panel goes and glue it up.

    I can apply the single piece of glass to the back side and hide the edge by making some small 1/2" by 3/8" trim--ell shaped in profile. It sits on the stiles and rails of the door and also slightly on the glass. I mitre this on and tack it with brass tacks--pre-drilling of course.
    You can't see the trim from the front because the 3/4" grid hides it.
    Applying the glass comes after it has been painted of course.
    I also use a few very small dabs of silicone so that the glass doesn't rattle.
    One IMPORTANT thing to remember is that if you are using euro hinges with big cup holes you need to make your stiles 2 and 1/4 inches wide and make sure your little trim that you use to hide the glass is back far enough from the hinges when you go to screw them on the inside of the door.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle area , Duvall
    Posts
    2,074
    Thanks for all the help. Alot of clarity was given

  13. #13
    Not to muddy the waters, but here's what I do. I think that the lap joint that Peter described is best quality, but I personally would rather not have to do any more measuring and precision cutting than absolutely necessary. The method below only requires a grid to fit the door opening, then put away the measuring tools.

    Glue up door without a panel so that you have a cope/stick corner joint.
    Rabbet out the back side of the door with a router.
    Make the grid with dadoed lap joints to fit the opening in the face of the door exactly.
    Glue it in with typical end grain treatment (two glue applications a minute or so apart).
    Set up the drill press with a 3/8" forstner bit set for about 1/8 - 3/16" depth with a fence that positions the bit right over the intersection of the muntin/mullion and the door frame.
    Bore shallow hole at each intersection.
    Use thick super glue, accelerator, 3/8 dowels, and a flush cut saw to create inset disks that span the joint and reinforce it.
    JR

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Belden, Mississippi
    Posts
    2,180
    It is MUNTINS!!!!! Mutton is sheep meat.
    Bill
    On the other hand, I still have five fingers.

  15. #15

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill White View Post
    It is MUNTINS!!!!! Mutton is sheep meat.
    Bill
    Mmmnn Mutton, traditional Irish Stew, Mmmnn tasty!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •