SMC Design Critiques #1

[Greg Heppeard]

So, was the chair designed specifically for the person pictured? If so. looks like a perfect fit.

[Mark Singer]

The chair was designed for Ted Norman, who is seated. He actually worked closely with the designer a woman, Dhana Solish, to develop the chair. So I think it fits his frame. Bert Johansen , mentioned that he thought it was Casals and after doing a search I agree there is a strong resemblance , but it is Ted Norman. This gives you a bit more history. The history of the chair is not that important to the critique as your opinion on the design....we are not solving a mystery and there is no right or wrong answer.....it is just your opinion and why. Just like movie reviews are different so are these and that is because each of us has an individual opinion....that is a good thing!

So, was the chair designed specifically for the person pictured? If so. looks like a perfect fit.

[Tom LaRussa]

The history of the chair is not that important to the critique as your opinion on the design....we are not solving a mystery and there is no right or wrong answer.....it is just your opinion and why.

Mark,

I'm having a difficult time seperating my opinion of this chair from its history and, after thinking about it for a while, I think I've figured out why. It's because my first impression of the chair is strongly negative, followed by rationalizations in its favor based on its intended purpose, as implied in the first picture you posted.

If I were to look at the chair, as depicted in the first picture, but removed from its obviously musical environment, then I would say that from my perspective at least, it fails miserably from the outset because it looks so uncomfortable.

Its exaggerated forward thrust it calls to mind what the frame of an airline last-class passenger seat must look like underneath the fabric -- locked in the full upright position.



If I were a gallery owner trying to peddle the chair as "art" I would probably shave one side of my head and give the potential suckers ... er ... um ... customers -- a bunch of bologna about how the chair is yearning to break free from its environs. Depending on just how close to Hollywood, SOHO, San Francisco, or South Beach I was, I would toss in some vaguely Marxist blatherings to go along with the pitch.

Or, I might instead emphasize the vaguely Japanese look of the piece as shown in this picture:



... and spout a bunch of crud about balance and the like.

But, from a woodworkers perspective, the immediate turnoff is that it looks painful to sit in.

But beyond that, it also looks terribly contrived, "cutesy," dated the day it was completed.

A few random impressions:

The apparent squareness of the horizontal slats on the back helps to reinforce the impression that this is not device in which a human being will find comfort.

The wood of the base appears, (at least from the pictures), to be so heavily colored as to make one wonder why wood was used at all. Why not plastic or a nice carbon fiber composite?

The edges of the seat look like they will dig into the backs of ones thighs and cut off ones circulation.

That central back leg only looks good from directly straight on. From an angle it looks terrible.

Also, why is the spine thingie done in two different colors, i.e., above vs below the seat? Is it supposed to unify the thing or not?

The way the horizontal cross pieces sort of hang there, one expects to find screw heads sticking out of the back of the spine were one to look back there.

So, to sum up, as a purpose-built chair for this musician dude, it's okay, because all the convolutions make sense in that context, (even though the issues of color and why bother with wood remain).

But as a chair in the Platonic sense, well, enough said me thinks.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I wanted to answer the critique request without reading the other respponses, so as not to be influenced by them. But I admit I did read some of them. Here's my 2c

Things I like.

1. The back rest design is certainly unique, atleast to me it is.
2. The contrasting colors highlight the various design elements.
3. How the backrest curves to match the spinal curve.

Things I don't like.

1. Visually the chair is bottom heavy. There is no continuity between how the the legs are shaped and the back rest.
2. The design produces a mixed impact. The seat and legs are more organic/freeform while the backrest looks very geometric. The legs start to go up streight and then gradually curve into the seat, the back rest also starts from a wide bottom but it narrows as it goes up in a streight line, as opposed to the gentle curve of the legs.
3. I cover the chair seat and down and just look at the backrest, then cover the backrest and look at the seat and the legs. Somehow when I imagine the other half of each image the current design doesn't seem to fit.

Things I am not sure about

1. I really like the deep cherry and light tan contrast in the beam/pillar of the backrest and the slats. I wonder how the chair would look if the same two colors were adapted for the legs, or maybe just the dark cherry instead of the black. Specially if the edges around the seat were also stained the same shade of dark cherry.
2. How about if the backrest slats wrapped around some, following the contour of the seat and started from a wider base, gradually narrowing as they went up. All elements in the chair have some degree of organic curvature except the slats.

[Kevin Arceneaux]

It is a nice work of art, but it just seems off. I looked at it last night and thought it was a little off. But I thought, wait a day and look again and see what it says to you. It still says "I'm a little off" The legs just don't go with the seat and back. My first impression without looking at the surronding was a Japan influence. But then looking at the whole scene, the musical them became apparent. A combination of the two?

Different type legs, more in style with a music stand might have been better. The legs seem to be the kind you would find on a chair in a lounge or at an upscale bar.

I do like the wood for the seat and back, but again, the wood for the legs just doesn't seem to compliment the seat and back. There is a lack of harmony between the two, with is at odds with most oriental philosphy.

Ying and Yang?

[Randy Moore]

Mark,

I don't like the chair, it's not my style. I am more of a country person, give me bucket, a log or anything that doesn't mind if it might get dirty and I would be comfortable. I just don't like the looks of that "Chair".


Randy

[Arnie Grammon]

Mark

That's funny. After you posted the picture of the owner, I was convinced that the person seated was Andres' Segovia, probably the most famous classical guitarists known. What was even more interesting was my reaction to that thought......the connection to Segovia made the chair more legit in my mind. Then Bert Johansen weighed in and I started second guessing myself even further. Then I read this morning that the person seated and playing is Ted Norman. Ahh.......

For those interested, Mr. Norman was a student of Segovia in his early years. Later, he taught classical music and guitar as a Professor of Music at UCLA. Knowing his UCLA roots, I can now see the eclectic design of the chair fitting into the rest of his life story. Once again, I find it interesting that someone famous adds a layer of legitimicy to the design, at least in my mind. Sort of like a famous actor playing a dud role in a dud movie. The movie still is considered legit and is watched because of the star quality attached. The mind tends to play tricks on us.

All things considered, I feel that the chair should stand on it's own merit, without the star quality. As I said earlier, I wouldn't play in that chair with my Martin, but might with my banged up old Yamaha. Anyone else have that feelihg?

AG

The chair was designed for Ted Norman, who is seated. He actually worked closely with the designer a woman, Dhana Solish, to develop the chair. So I think it fits his frame. Bert Johansen , mentioned that he thought it was Casals and after doing a search I agree there is a strong resemblance , but it is Ted Norman. This gives you a bit more history. The history of the chair is not that important to the critique as your opinion on the design....we are not solving a mystery and there is no right or wrong answer.....it is just your opinion and why. Just like movie reviews are different so are these and that is because each of us has an individual opinion....that is a good thing!

[Scott Parks]

First impressions: (without reading other's comments)

My wife. She likes the fact that it is unique. It has simplistic, yet sophisticated form. The curved base ties together with the "spine". She likes the contrast of woods. She finds it interesting and it "draws" her to want to sit in it. It is not something she would love to own, but appealing. It needs the right room and space to be put in. In other words, it needs to fit the decor and personality of the room that it resides in. She says "it could be the center of attention".

My impression. First of all, I don't have an artistic eye in design or style. I see an interesting peice, but I feel that it is not in correct proportion. To me, it looks choppy, or cobbled together.

[Mark Singer]

I really appreciate the wonderful comments! It is great to let your wife comment! I want to hear all the opinions....this is a chance for all to get involved. Excuse me while I try a little more Merlot... woodworkers are special people... I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday...and Merry Christmas...it is a special time of year regardless of what you think about the chair or what your sittting on....so there!

[Mark Singer]

I have read and re-read your critiques and I really think collectively the SMC members have really done an excellent job. I chose the chair for the first critique, originally not liking it at all. I didn't even realize its intended purpose was a guitarists chair. If it were a dining chair I think it really fails. As I did more research I realized it was designed for and with Ted Normans input. This is significant. I actually began appreciating aspects and the general design....it is a one of a kind chair.I don't know much about him...the chair seems to fit him well and the way his weight is distributed ...forward , it seems to fulfill the intended purpose...for playing the guitar with weight on the legs. The metaphorical "spine" seems very dominant and may have been a reminder for Mr. Norman to maintain a certain posture...this we will probably not know. I think if you haven't , you should read the others comments, I learned a great deal from them. I think a lot of thought went into to the design of this chair....elements that seemed arbitrary at first now seem to have purpose. It appears to be designed for its intent and also very carefully for its user , Ted Norman. Metaphor in design is usually not as obvious. A great example is Gunnar Asplund's Stockholm library, with its cranial shaped main space...where the thinking goes on. I think the chair was worthy of discussion. It recieved many posts and views...I am pleased..

I am looking for a second piece of furniture for our second critique...it could be well known or obscure and I welcome suggestions. Just send me them in a Private Message and I will review them. If in a couple of days, I haven't recieved any ....I will chose something....so let me know if you have any ideas!

[John Stevens]

The metaphorical "spine" seems very dominant and may have been a reminder for Mr. Norman to maintain a certain posture... [snip] Metaphor in design is usually not as obvious.

This may be nothing more than a morbid projection, but I see the back of the chair as suggesting the spine and rib cage of a human skeleton--a reminder that (a) the music, (b) the ability to play music with high proficiency, and (c) life itself, are all transitory--so when you sit down to play, play like you might not get another chance.

[Chris Padilla]

I read just a few of the posts but I didn't really pay attention to those that I perused in hopes of providing my own unbiased opinion.

The first thing it reminded me off was the human backbone/spinal column and that it looked like it would be very uncomfortable.

However, I immediately liked the large seat as it looked like it would cradle my butt nicely. Upon closer inspections, the back does curve a bit and so I thought, perhaps, that it might be a surprisingly comfortable chair.

I love the contrasting wood colors but for some reason, I do not like how the 2 front legs tie in/connect with the back leg. It makes the bottom of the chair too meaty and causes the slender legs to lose their delicateness. I think delicate legs are needed to carry such a large seat. However, it does certainly look very stable.

[Jon Olson]

I tried to review without reading the other posts first.

Chair: Thumbs "inbetween".

I was first taken by the fact that the seat seems to float, with the black coloring of the legs. That is a nice eye treatment (it could be the rug though) The wide seat looks confortable and inviting. the legs have a very nice forward sweep. BUT that sweep seems to make the chair look unstable to me. The back design is not a style I enjoy but the arc in the back does add a sense of comfort. The increasing size of the slats fits well to draw the eye down to the seat. BUT its not a style I really enjoy.

Jon

[Jon Olson]

Having now read other reviews and seen the added pictures ...(if you do add pics later can they be added to the original post or at the top - moderator question)... I think the chair is still not a winner in my style eye but seems to function as it was designed. I agree with the post about the sharp corner on the back laying waste to a guitarist's arm but the design of the back support does lend to correct playing posture for a guitarist.

Thank you Mark for this post and I'm sure others to follow. As we all try to improve our designs, reading how other view items and what they see as important can greatly improve how we look at our designs before we build.

Jon

[Joe Unni]

Oops...just realized I'm a little late!

If I could add one more perspective...

For its intended use - I give it a 10. I picked up right away that this was in fact a guitarists chair. As a past amateur musician, I could tell there was an indended user - especially after seeing Mr. Norman sitting in it. Even the overall layout is great for this user. If you notice the way Mr. Norman sits - kind of forward with much of his weight on his feet, you can tell that the forward push of the back as well as the leg system, will support him appropriately while playing.

From a overall design perspective....

It seems quite disjointed. My eyes couldn't really settle on any one element - almost too busy. I remember reading something pretty recently that you should have no more than 2 or 3 major design elements for a piece of furniture to feel harmoneous. I think that's the case here.

I think some of the design elements on their own are really pretty striking.
The floating spine with contrasting woods and its curves, the gently outward curve (as seen from the front view) of the two front legs, the massive seat itself, and even the curved leg stretcher is interesting to me, but all together - not great.

Mark, thanks for this thread and opportunity to read and learn. I'd love to submit the right piece and get this type of feedback. What a way to become a better designer/woodworker!!!

Thanks again and Happy New Year!
-joe